Harman TLC 2000 Glass Door Cracked

Harman TLC 2000 Glass Door Cracked

PostBy: JLF53 On: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:09 am

I had the glass crack on Monday night. The bottom and second cast iron bars have warped to the point that they touched the glass and cracked it. I have been running the stove at 300-400 degrees with the blower on. this stove is a piece of junk. It is a products liability legal issue, not fit for its intended use, a stove that provides heat. Then the wooden dooor handle broke and had o be replaced. Next the top hinge came loose and the front door came off in my hand. finally the bottom slide air vent handle came off. I am fed up and wish I bought a stoker. Never a Harman again or a hand fired stove. They misrepresent thier burn time and mislead potential customers with hopes of 60 hour burn, am lucky to get 12 hours. If I wanted to be a slave I would go to Asia.

Just venting.

NEVER BUY A HARMAN TLC 2000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
JLF53
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pocono

Re: Harman TLC 2000 Glass Door Cracked

PostBy: RMA On: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:07 am

How long have you been using this stove?
I haven't noticed any similar experiences noted...
Has anyone had problems like this?
I was thinking about this particular model...hmmm.

Bob A
RMA
 

Re: Harman TLC 2000 Glass Door Cracked

PostBy: JLF53 On: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:32 am

RMA wrote:How long have you been using this stove?
I haven't noticed any similar experiences noted...
Has anyone had problems like this?
I was thinking about this particular model...hmmm.

Bob A


I lit the first fire December 9, 2008 and have kept it going continously since. Please note that I take very good care of my cars and appliances owning a Maytag washer since 1986 and my car, a 1990 Mercury Grand Marquis with original transmission, power steering and engine. So this is not proving to be a durable quality made item. Another member had his glass crack and blamed nimself vut I think it is bad design. Harman brags about having the largest window for any stove, perhaps they exceeded the prudent size and it is too weak to perform. Other design defects are the lip on the inside of the front door, which collects ash and flys around the room even on slow opening.
Then there is the lip on the left top of the ash pan near the shaker mechanism. It collects ash and needs to be cleaned after every shake with an l shaped hanger or other metal rod.
And finally when I got the blower three weeks ago, the holes on the blower did not properly line up with the screw mounting holes on the stove. I finally had to get a carbide tipped drill and enlarge the hole on the fan mount so that I could attach it to the stove.. In addition the stove was hot where the screw attaches, took 2 hours and burned my fingers.

If I were going to buy a stove again I would buy a stoker, not sure if leisure line or alaska
channing III. I just know that the burn times Harman quotes are unrealitic and in my opinion fraud.
JLF53
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pocono

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Re: Harman TLC 2000 Glass Door Cracked

PostBy: Devil505 On: Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:33 am

Sorry to hear your problems with the TLC. I have been burning mine for 4 years now & love it. This is my 3rd coal stove & by far the best one I've ever owned. Air-tight, easy to regulate, easy to load & unload, huge ash pan & even looks good!


JLF53 wrote:Another member had his glass crack and blamed nimself vut I think it is bad design


I had a cracked window 2 years ago & replaced it & bought a spare door/window assembly for $100.00 so if it happens again I won't even have to shut down, I'll just swap doors.I think glass can break in any stove so I wouldn't single out Harman for that problem.

JLF53 wrote:Other design defects are the lip on the inside of the front door, which collects ash and flys around the room even on slow opening.
Then there is the lip on the left top of the ash pan near the shaker mechanism. It collects ash and needs to be cleaned after every shake with an l shaped hanger or other metal rod.

I agree about the lip in the ash pan as an ash collector but I'm going to design a hood for it which should solve the problem. Never had a problem with the lip on the door. (door hinge pins do tend to crawl up & out with use so you have to push them down occasionally. I don't find this a big problem but you could always jury rig your own hinge pins with cotter pins to fix that problem.


JLF53 wrote:And finally when I got the blower three weeks ago, the holes on the blower did not properly line up with the screw mounting holes on the stove. I finally had to get a carbide tipped drill and enlarge the hole on the fan mount so that I could attach it to the stove.. In addition the stove was hot where the screw attaches, took 2 hours and burned my fingers.

I hooked up my own blower fan which sits behind the stove & connects via a duct fitting, so I never had the mounting hole issue.

I think the bottom line is that, after burning 3 stoves, there is no such thing as a "Perfect" stove & each will have its quirks. All in all, I would say this is the easiest stove to fill, operate & clean out that I have ever owned & would have no reservations about recommending it to anyone.
If this is your first stove & you are looking for perfection, I don't think you'll be happier with any other stove.

One benefit/problem common to most Harmans is the design of the shaker mechanism which has extensive travel for easy dumping/clean out. Until you learn how to shake a Harman, you can easily dump to much of you fire by accident. I designed a "Stop" for most Harmans that works pretty well. "Stops" For Harman Shaker Mechanisms?

Edit: Forgot this: "The bottom and second cast iron bars have warped to the point that they touched the glass and cracked it."
I have replaced one bar for warping but I wouldn't call that a design flaw any more than I would recommend against buying a Honda because I got a flat tire in one. :lol: (I consider it normal wear & tare & it was cheap to replace)


Take a deep breath.....Pour yourself a nice stiff dink.......sit in front of your stove & bask in the heat & chill out! :lol: :shots:
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Harman TLC 2000 Glass Door Cracked

PostBy: JLF53 On: Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:41 am

I think that Devil's comments are an attempt to mollify and understate a problem. I have no problem with the shaker system since I use nut sized coal there is no need for stops.

I might suggest that owners not modify an already defective design with stops or additional fire brick. those items change the dynamic of the engineered design and could result in damage to the stove. Certainly owners are not, for the most part, capability of testing a re-engineered design in a controlled pilot test environment. Thus, design changes are risky and to recommend them to other owners should be evaluated.

I do not intend to chill out, I intend to seek redress and satisfaction and have the defective parts replaced by the manufacturer.

Comparing a poor design and bad quality to a flat tire on a Honda is not remotely analogous. There is now way this glass should crack. It is a poor design deficient in capability and it is something that potential purchasers of this stove should be aware of.

This stove is not capable of its stated btu performance. I have kept the temperature at 300-450 (within stated specification), at max, and the result is certainly not 72,000 btu per hour. Thus in products liability the item is required to be fit for intended purpose. This stove is not fit for its intended purpose, heating a home and burning coal.

The bar design coupled with the large unstable glass is most certainly a design defect. No other stove has bars in the front of the glass. Even slanting the coal towards the rear of the stove and trying to keep coal and flames away from the front is not completely possible. The bars are meant to perform in high temperature. If they are low grade, then they will warp.

While there might not be a perfect stove, this stove is far to the side of the scale classified as defective.

I have not intention of having a "spare door with glass!" the mere thought as that as a solution in proof that this glass is too large and Harman did not peroperly design it.

further Harman customer service is like writing to Santa, no response. they foist off the customer service (if one could deign to call it that) to their dealers who might only sell on model of a particular stove. Centralized customer service would be much more likely to result in timely and correct answers. I called Alaska and they answer their phone. A far cry from Harman who hides behind their dealers.
JLF53
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pocono

Re: Harman TLC 2000 Glass Door Cracked

PostBy: Devil505 On: Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:55 am

JLF53 wrote:I think that Devil's comments are an attempt to mollify and understate a problem.


Man!!....I expect this on political threads but on a coal stove problem thread??? :shock:

All I said is that I think the TLC2000 is the best coal stove I have ever owned in almost 30 years of coal burning with three stoves, & that I don't think a perfect stove exists. (I think if you look through all threads on any stove, you will find some things that could be improved)

That's all I'm saying. (I must have a "Kick Me" sign on my back the last few days :fear: )
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Harman TLC 2000 Glass Door Cracked

PostBy: oliver power On: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:49 am

Devil505 wrote:
JLF53 wrote:I think that Devil's comments are an attempt to mollify and understate a problem.


Man!!....I expect this on political threads but on a coal stove problem thread??? :shock:

All I said is that I think the TLC2000 is the best coal stove I have ever owned in almost 30 years of coal burning with three stoves, & that I don't think a perfect stove exists. (I think if you look through all threads on any stove, you will find some things that could be improved)

That's all I'm saying. (I must have a "Kick Me" sign on my back the last few days :fear: )
Hi Devil,
:secret: If you ever thought of selling your stove, now's not the time :lol: .
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
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Re: Harman TLC 2000 Glass Door Cracked

PostBy: EasyRay On: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:39 am

This is my third season with my TLC 2000 and I am very pleased with mine. So far, no problems. Sure there are little quirks to any stove you may not like. But so far they are very minor.
The hinge pins on the glass door tend to work their way up when opening or closing the door. Just tap them down every once in a while.
I bought the blower and it was a perfect fit. Maybe your dealer sold you the wrong blower for this model.
No steel bar warping yet. If it does just reverse it. Keep the space between the bottom bar and the top of brick clear of debris and thick dust. I use a regular screw driver for this.
The bottom air vent can be adjusted to move loosely or tighter and locked in place with a lock nut between the openings.
It is possible for a piece of coal to get lodged between the steel bars and the door, so closing the door at that time, could crack the glass.
I don't bother cleaning the left side plate under the grate any more.. I think it keeps the dust from blowing out around the shaker rod during the shake process.
With recent temperatures I shake and fill only once a day and could go another 6 hours on top of that if I needed it, but its easier to stay with a once a day shake and reload. When its very cold I change to twice a day.

I have not needed any customer service. The problem is everything has to be handled through the dealer and not directly with Harman. If your dealer doesn't help you then your :flush: Good Luck.
EasyRay
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC 2000
Coal Size/Type: Pea,Nut or Stove

Re: Harman TLC 2000 Glass Door Cracked

PostBy: Devil505 On: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:49 am

EasyRay wrote:have not needed any customer service. The problem is everything has to be handled through the dealer and not directly with Harman.


Someone posted this yesterday...... Consumer phone help 800-664-3119...
Supposed to be a new phone support from Harman. (I haven't tried it)

I'm with you Ray.....I think it's a great stove & built like a tank compared to the 2 other stoves I owned!
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Harman TLC 2000 Glass Door Cracked

PostBy: Devil505 On: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:08 pm

JLF53 wrote:I might suggest that owners not modify an already defective design with stops or additional fire brick. those items change the dynamic of the engineered design and could result in damage to the stove. Certainly owners are not, for the most part, capability of testing a re-engineered design in a controlled pilot test environment. Thus, design changes are risky and to recommend them to other owners should be evaluated.



1. The stove design is not "Already defective."....That is your opinion which I disagree with & have not read similar opinions from other TLC owners.
2. Adding a STOP for newbies or additional firebricks has caused me no problems that "change the dynamic of the engineered design and could result in damage to the stove"....What specific damage are you alluding too?
3. When you say this: "Certainly owners are not, for the most part, capability of testing a re-engineered design in a controlled pilot test environment. Thus, design changes are risky and to recommend them to other owners should be evaluated"....I disagree & think owners are the perfect people to experiment with & adapt their stoves for their particular homes & likes. How does adding a STOP to the shaker arm or a few more firebricks make operation "Risky?"

To Bob A or anyone else looking at ANY stove, I would recommend reading as many owner reviews as you can b4 making a decision to buy, & then going for the best appliance that you can afford. If you are looking for perfection, you will never find it no matter what you buy, & I think most forum members here have modified their stoves in some fashion to better meet their needs/wants..
Last edited by Devil505 on Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:45 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Harman TLC 2000 Glass Door Cracked

PostBy: EasyRay On: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:10 pm

Devil505 wrote:
EasyRay wrote:have not needed any customer service. The problem is everything has to be handled through the dealer and not directly with Harman.


Someone posted this yesterday...... Consumer phone help 800-664-3119...
Supposed to be a new phone support from Harman. (I haven't tried it)

I'm with you Ray.....I think it's a great stove & built like a tank compared to the 2 other stoves I owned!


I don't see it any where on their site. I'll copy the number just in case. Thanks for reposting the number. I hope it is a valid number. I don't want to call for no reason. It should used only if you have legitimate problem.
Maybe JLF53 should try the number and post Harmans response about his problems and dissatisfaction.
EasyRay
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC 2000
Coal Size/Type: Pea,Nut or Stove

Re: Harman TLC 2000 Glass Door Cracked

PostBy: 009to090 On: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:31 pm

Devil505 wrote:
EasyRay wrote:have not needed any customer service. The problem is everything has to be handled through the dealer and not directly with Harman.


Someone posted this yesterday...... Consumer phone help 800-664-3119...
Supposed to be a new phone support from Harman. (I haven't tried it)

I'm with you Ray.....I think it's a great stove & built like a tank compared to the 2 other stoves I owned!



I just dialed that number. It's ligit. Harman Consumer Service. I am writting it down on my owners manual.

Chris F.
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Re: Harman TLC 2000 Glass Door Cracked

PostBy: Devil505 On: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:34 pm

DVC500_at_last wrote:I just dialed that number. It's ligit. Harman Consumer Service. I am writting it down on my owners manual.

Chris F.


Thanks Chris....I got it from Steve's thread Consumer phone number for Harman
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Harman TLC 2000 Glass Door Cracked

PostBy: JLF53 On: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:44 pm

Devil505 wrote:
JLF53 wrote:I might suggest that owners not modify an already defective design with stops or additional fire brick. those items change the dynamic of the engineered design and could result in damage to the stove. Certainly owners are not, for the most part, capability of testing a re-engineered design in a controlled pilot test environment. Thus, design changes are risky and to recommend them to other owners should be evaluated.



1. The stove design is not "Already defective."....That is your opinion which I disagree with & have not read similar opinions from other TLC owners.
2. Adding a STOP for newbies or additional firebricks has caused me no problems that "change the dynamic of the engineered design and could result in damage to the stove"....What specific damage are you alluding too?
3. When you say this: "Certainly owners are not, for the most part, capability of testing a re-engineered design in a controlled pilot test environment. Thus, design changes are risky and to recommend them to other owners should be evaluated"....I disagree & think owners are the perfect people to experiment with & adapt their stoves for their particular homes & likes. How does adding a STOP to the shaker arm of a few more firebricks make operation "Risky?"

To Bob A or anyone else looking at ANY stove, I would recommend reading as many owner reviews as you can b4 making a decision to buy, & then going for the best appliance that you can afford. If you are looking for perfection, you will never find it no matter what you buy, & I think most forum members here have modified their stoves in some fashion to better meet their needs/wants..


Well most warrantees are voided by after market modifications.

I think the factual problems with things that have broken and not been manufactured properly should be posted so potential purchasers can have both sides of the story and make an informed decision.

I would not be surprized that Devil's glass craked at a time frame coinciding with his glass cracking.

Coming from one of the largest publically held companies, customer service should reside with the manufacturer. It is unthinkable to foist your customer service off on third party business yo business dealers.
JLF53
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pocono

Re: Harman TLC 2000 Glass Door Cracked

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:50 pm

So one goes to Detroit when you have a problem with your car?
I believe the dealer can best handle most issues the best!
And this large publicly company you work for would be...
CapeCoaler
 
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