I know, It's the LAW...so I shouldn't question it

Re: I know, It's the LAW...so I shouldn't question it

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:48 am

jpete wrote:I'm saying they have similar ideological beliefs. Right or wrong?


Only as it relates to the goals of the group they all belong too....& I dispute your characterization of the Council on Foreign Relations as having the dissolution of the U.S. as a goal. (very weak, illogical argument there jpete) :nono:

You misstate the goals of a group & then try to use your misstatement as the basis of an argument!? :hammer:
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Re: I know, It's the LAW...so I shouldn't question it

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:33 am

The lies I was referring to ? Just for openers I can remember seeing darn near blueprints of the cave complexes that AQ had built into the mountains, they were in all the mags at the time, multi levels, reinforced concrete, air ducts, all kinds of defenses. I was thinking at that time it had to be lies mainly because it would take a six lane highway to get the materials. Much the same for Hussan`s palaces except that was a doable thing but unless we built them I hardly think they would give the diagrams to the public. What happened to all the billions of U.S. dollars? Why is a private security firm needed in a war zone? How much have we paid Hali-burton for a nobid contract to rebuild things that didn`t need to be destroyed in the first place? Why wasn`t even one of the weapons produceing complexes or even the mobile trucks they had pictures of ever found? Those a just a few of the lies I question jpete or perhaps they were just un-truths. At least the economy was kept sound for us.
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Re: I know, It's the LAW...so I shouldn't question it

PostBy: pvolcko On: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:13 pm

jpete wrote:
pvolcko wrote:His thinking was that defending the constitution was accomplished only by preserving the union, one did not exist independently of the other. He did not want to preserve it through use of force, but he was not willing to have federal forts taken by force without an equal response of force. And so the fighting began, the blockades started, and the conflict blossomed into a full blown war.


I'm not going to go through point by point but what does the presidents "thinking" have to do with anything? GWB "thought" Iraq had WMD's. Doesn't make it true.

I "think" I shouldn't pay income and property tax. Want to bet the government will show me the error in my thinking?


And the states, soldiers, and congress that remained could have told Lincoln to go pound dirt when he started going to force. Some few did, and joined with the confederates. The others, when push came to shove, didn't.

No law or constitution means anything and has no practical effect until a person reads it, forms an understanding of it, and then executes an action based on that understanding/thinking. Lincoln's thinking was important, being that you asked what gave him the authority to forcibly prevent secession. I gave you the answer. Your understanding of the constitution and law obviously differs from his and that of the states and soldiers that accepted his course of action and orders, but that was the reasoning none the less.

If that isn't satisfactory for you, then I think you are asking the wrong question.
pvolcko
 


Re: I know, It's the LAW...so I shouldn't question it

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:21 pm

samhill wrote:The lies I was referring to ? Just for openers I can remember seeing darn near blueprints of the cave complexes that AQ had built into the mountains, they were in all the mags at the time, multi levels, reinforced concrete, air ducts, all kinds of defenses. I was thinking at that time it had to be lies mainly because it would take a six lane highway to get the materials. Much the same for Hussan`s palaces except that was a doable thing but unless we built them I hardly think they would give the diagrams to the public. What happened to all the billions of U.S. dollars? Why is a private security firm needed in a war zone? How much have we paid Hali-burton for a nobid contract to rebuild things that didn`t need to be destroyed in the first place? Why wasn`t even one of the weapons produceing complexes or even the mobile trucks they had pictures of ever found? Those a just a few of the lies I question jpete or perhaps they were just un-truths. At least the economy was kept sound for us.

You mean the training facilities the the CIA built for the muhjideen during the Soviet/Afgan war? Follow the Constitution and we don't have these problems. No one seems to want to do that though.
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Re: I know, It's the LAW...so I shouldn't question it

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:51 pm

I guess that means it all is there & noone has found them yet. Funny if the cia built them some one would likely remember. At least where they were last.
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Re: I know, It's the LAW...so I shouldn't question it

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:09 pm

samhill wrote:I guess that means it all is there & noone has found them yet. Funny if the cia built them some one would likely remember. At least where they were last.

Remember after the Kohbar(sp?) Towers bombing when Clinton lofted a couple ICBM's into Afganistan? How do you think he knew where to send them? If thought you REALLY wanted to know, I could recommend some reading. Heck, you could rent "Charlie Wilson's War" with Tom Hanks if you wanted to learn a little. The movie makes Wilson a hero. Personally, I hold him partially responsible for 9/11. But that's just me.
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Re: I know, It's the LAW...so I shouldn't question it

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:48 pm

jpete wrote:Remember after the Kohbar(sp?) Towers bombing when Clinton lofted a couple ICBM's into Afganistan?

jpete wrote:I could recommend some reading.


I could recommend a little "Reading" to you too! :P

(Clinton fired a few Cruise missiles, not ICBM's!)...(Picky...Picky......just being a jerk :oops: )
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Re: I know, It's the LAW...so I shouldn't question it

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:56 pm

Devil505 wrote:
jpete wrote:Remember after the Kohbar(sp?) Towers bombing when Clinton lofted a couple ICBM's into Afganistan?

jpete wrote:I could recommend some reading.


I could recommend a little "Reading" to you too! :P
Think you could stand to be without your Little Red Book that long? ;)
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Re: I know, It's the LAW...so I shouldn't question it

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:01 pm

jpete wrote:Think you could stand to be without your Little Red Book that long? ;)


Little red book??
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Re: I know, It's the LAW...so I shouldn't question it

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:09 pm

OK ! I hope you`ll forgive me here, I`m not as well schooled as others here butI suggested that Bush was telling an un-truth about the re-enforced caves in Afganistan. You said that they were indeed there & were infact destroyed by Clinton by a unknown type of flying object. I still don`t believe they ever were there. But what your telling me is that we didn`t find what was there but was destroyed by us at a earlier time by another Pres. & then used by Bush as propaganda as to why we couldn`t find O.B.L. Now I`m really confused about truth & un-true. Guess I better go see some movies.
By the way that was only 1 of my questions but please don`t address the others I have a headache.
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Re: I know, It's the LAW...so I shouldn't question it

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:06 pm

Devil505 wrote:
jpete wrote:I'm saying they have similar ideological beliefs. Right or wrong?


Only as it relates to the goals of the group they all belong too....& I dispute your characterization of the Council on Foreign Relations as having the dissolution of the U.S. as a goal. (very weak, illogical argument there jpete) :nono:

You misstate the goals of a group & then try to use your misstatement as the basis of an argument!? :hammer:


On what basis do you think the CFR DOESN'T want to dissolve the borders between the three countries?

It's all right there in their book if you care to look. They aren't hiding anything.
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Re: I know, It's the LAW...so I shouldn't question it

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:21 pm

samhill wrote:OK ! I hope you`ll forgive me here, I`m not as well schooled as others here butI suggested that Bush was telling an un-truth about the re-enforced caves in Afganistan. You said that they were indeed there & were infact destroyed by Clinton by a unknown type of flying object. I still don`t believe they ever were there. But what your telling me is that we didn`t find what was there but was destroyed by us at a earlier time by another Pres. & then used by Bush as propaganda as to why we couldn`t find O.B.L. Now I`m really confused about truth & un-true. Guess I better go see some movies.
By the way that was only 1 of my questions but please don`t address the others I have a headache.


Clinton destroyed ONE of the camps the CIA built to train fighters against the Soviet Union. OBL being one of those trainees. You don't have to "believe" they were there, they were there.

Zbigniew Brzezinski, one of BHO's current policy advisors, and former Carter administration member said this about his and Carter's involvement in luring the USSR into an Afgan war.

Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?

Brzezinski: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter: We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic [integrisme], having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

Brzezinski: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

Q: Some stirred-up Moslems? But it has been said and repeated: Islamic fundamentalism represents a world menace today.

Brzezinski: Nonsense! It is said that the West had a global policy in regard to Islam. That is stupid. There isn't a global Islam. Look at Islam in a rational manner and without demagoguery or emotion. It is the leading religion of the world with 1.5 billion followers. But what is there in common among Saudi Arabian fundamentalism, moderate Morocco, Pakistan militarism, Egyptian pro-Western or Central Asian secularism? Nothing more than what unites the Christian countries.


And this man has the ear of the president. Get ready for a war with Iran!

But don't think it would be any different with an R in the office. Carroll Quigley, a mentor to Bill Clinton said:

"The chief problem of American political life for a long time has been how to make the two Congressional parties more national and more international. The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps of the Right, and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical so that the American people can 'throw the rascals out' at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shifts in policy. The policies that are vital and necessary for America are no longer subjects of significant disagreement, but are disputable only in terms of procedure, priority and method..."
....in his book "Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in Our Time"

Your government is involved with things you would be horrified with. The information is out there, if you want to look.
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Re: I know, It's the LAW...so I shouldn't question it

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:11 pm

A reinforced cave complex is not an open training camp. Guess I just got to go see that movie.
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Re: I know, It's the LAW...so I shouldn't question it

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:15 pm

samhill wrote:A reinforced cave complex is not an open training camp. Guess I just got to go see that movie.


Just come out and say, "I don't want to investigate anything that would destroy my narrow view of the world" and I'll stop wasting my time.

It's not like OBL's family owns the largest construction company in Saudi Arabia. I'm sure there's NO WAY he'd have the resources to pull something like that off. :roll:
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Re: I know, It's the LAW...so I shouldn't question it

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:25 pm

jpete wrote:On what basis do you think the CFR DOESN'T want to dissolve the borders between the three countries?

It's all right there in their book if you care to look. They aren't hiding anything.



I would be very interested in a book that clearly states that they "want to dissolve the borders between the three countries"....Not your interpretation of what they want but a clear statement. Have a link to that book?
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