Well I was thinking,

Well I was thinking,

PostBy: jeromemsn On: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:40 pm

I was watching the news today and kept hearing the same thing over and over, 92 percent are paying there mortgage on time and it's only the 8 percent that are the ones not paying that are making the stock markets and financial fall apart. I don't know if any of you see the irony in this but take a closer look. At this point in time 8 percent of the people of the united states are making the world jump sky high and open there check books and do what ever it takes to try to end this, 8 percent no less.
now lets look at it a little bit different, they say that about 8 to 10 percent of the working people of the U.S. are the big money makers, makes you wonder who really is in control of this so called democracy we live in, the majority or the minority that stand together with money in hand. I know stupid isn't it.
jeromemsn
 
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Re: Well I was thinking,

PostBy: Dann757 On: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:55 am

Yeah,
What a climate of fear. I hear all the restaurants in NYC are still busy all the time. I see the major highways of NJ crowded with traffic. I go into Home Depot, Lowe's, the local supermarket, all seemingly busy. I don't know any homeowners who are losing their homes. Craziness.
Dann757
 

Re: Well I was thinking,

PostBy: jpete On: Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:44 pm

But here is the thing, those 8% were leveraged out sometimes 50 to 1. And then you factor in all the things like CDO's and stuff that were invented based on the mortgage backed securities and all the other voodoo going on behind the scenes and you get what the monkey said when he p!ssed in the cash register, "This could run into some money."
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Re: Well I was thinking,

PostBy: billw On: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:03 pm

I'm against the bank bailout and the homeowner bailout. The banks made a ton of irresponsible loans, repackaged and unloaded them so they could avoid responsibility. Many, not all, of homeowners that are in trouble bought more house than they can afford.

My youngest sister and her husband are among them. They moved to Atlanta, bought a 650,000 McMansion, a new Suburban, new Honda Pilot, two ATV's, three dirt bikes and every dam toy you can imagine, all on credit. They can no longer afford all of this stuff so they are losing everything. The rest of my family is crying the blues for them except for me. It's a touchy subject when the family gets together so I keep my mouth shut.

We took the opposite approach. When we moved back to NEPA 15 years ago we bought a shack in a good neighborhood. Paid cash for materials as we went, did 90% of the work ourselves and are almost done. We drive beaters (our new car is 5 years old with 120,000 on the odom) and live modestly. So now I get to subsidize through, my taxes, all of these jerks, including a member of my own family for acting like spoiled jerks. It's not just 'not right' it's *censored* criminal IMO. The worst part of it is these companies and individuals won't learn a dam thing. As soon as they can they'll be back to the same bad habits because Uncle Sugar bailed them out.

I'm using the word jerk a lot because if I write what I really want all you'll see is (**censored**)
billw
 
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Re: Well I was thinking,

PostBy: jeromemsn On: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:14 pm

So jpete if I read what your saying correctly, a small part of the problem is mortgages, and a large part is about the rich trying to make every cent they can. So most of this money that we the tax payer will be saddled with will go to a few rich fat cats that were stung in there quest/pursuit of the almighty buck. Seems like every time you turn around the little guy has to make sure the fat cats have insurance on what ever they do even if it's stupid. they blame all this on home owners that bought to much, paid to much, yada yada yada, but if you read between the lines it is still about the rich wanting there money back after they are the ones that gambled. Seems like the same old song and dance. The home owner didn't have a gun to there head and neither did the banks or anyone else that tried to make a fast buck. All we have here is the latest Capone's except they don't carry guns they carry voter registration.
jeromemsn
 
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Re: Well I was thinking,

PostBy: jpete On: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:27 pm

Certainly many people just saw dollar signs in their eyes. The banks were giving out free money, the MSM was beating the drum for "Buy NOW!" and the government was talking about how great it all was. There is certainly enough blame to go around.

But if you have time, read this. It's 17 pages but it's a good (true) story.

http://www.portfolio.com/news-markets/n ... oom?page=0
jpete
 
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Re: Well I was thinking,

PostBy: 009to090 On: Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:04 pm

I was layed off on Oct 1st, 2008. Still haven't found a job. First time in my life I have never been working. Had to cash in my retirement account to continue paying the mortgage, and Cobra was too expensive to purchase, so we lost the health insurance. I can go another few months before we can't pay the mortgage anymore and need to sell the house. If I was offered mortgage payment money from the government, your Darn right I would jump at it.

Chris F.
009to090
 
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Re: Well I was thinking,

PostBy: jeromemsn On: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:14 pm

Chris sorry to hear of your current problems. First thing I would do is to call your nearest congressman or Representative and see whats available for you, next of course would be the bank. You seem to be just what they are looking for as far as helping Americans that through no fault of there own are struggling.
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Re: Well I was thinking,

PostBy: jpete On: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:56 pm

jeromemsn wrote:Chris sorry to hear of your current problems. First thing I would do is to call your nearest congressman or Representative and see whats available for you, next of course would be the bank. You seem to be just what they are looking for as far as helping Americans that through no fault of there own are struggling.


I wouldn't bet on that. Unless things changed in the last 8 months, my mortgage company wasn't all that interested in working with me. And even when I found a buyer for my house, they dragged their feet for 6 months. They did their best to drive me into foreclosure. Luckily, I had a patient buyer.
jpete
 
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Re: Well I was thinking,

PostBy: beemerboy On: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:01 pm

It's easy to blame the people that made bad decisions and took out loans they couldn't afford. But like Chris, last year over 2.5 million people lost their jobs and this year alone, over a half million people joined the unemployment line.

How many of these people took out legitimate loans and can no longer afford to pay through no fault of their own?

Chris, I hope things work out for the best for you.
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Re: Well I was thinking,

PostBy: 009to090 On: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:37 am

beemerboy wrote:Chris, I hope things work out for the best for you.



Thanks guys, something will come along. Probably lator than sooner. We don't have a McMansion or "Toys". Got two old Subarus which are paid for. so no monthly payments other than the mortgage. I'm happy to be spending so much time with our 2 kids, able to watch them grow up, instead of being stuck in a office building. I love that part! :D

Chris F.
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Re: Well I was thinking,

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:10 am

beemerboy wrote:It's easy to blame the people that made bad decisions and took out loans they couldn't afford. But like Chris, last year over 2.5 million people lost their jobs and this year alone, over a half million people joined the unemployment line.

How many of these people took out legitimate loans and can no longer afford to pay through no fault of their own?


Plus....Look what certain groups have us all focused on! ....Not the billions in our tax money that we are giving away to the major oil companies or Wall Street thieves.....but the pittance that we are giving to "greedy" low to middle class families who are about to lose their homes!
Watch THIS hand....Don't look at my other hand which has been picking your pocket for years!! :mad:
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Re: Well I was thinking,

PostBy: beemerboy On: Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:19 pm

I took this from a post on the Washington Monthly blog:http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_02/016992.php and I thought this cleared up some misconceptions about the housing bill.

Obama's plan is not primarily aimed at people who acted irresponsibly. Recall that it has three main parts:

(1) It rewrites regulations to allow people whose mortgages are with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and who owe 80-105% of the value of their home, to refinance. These are not necessarily people who are in trouble; the value of everyone's home is going down, and it's easy for someone who got a prudent mortgage with a good chunk of money down to find him- or herself in this category. In fact, people who really borrowed more than they could afford will, in many parts of the country, be too far underwater to take advantage of this provision.

Moreover, this costs the taxpayer virtually nothing. President Obama: "The estimated cost to taxpayers would be roughly zero. While Fannie and Freddie would receive less money in payments, this would be balanced out by a reduction in defaults and foreclosures."

(2) The loan modification program. This costs taxpayers $75 billion, which will be used to provide incentives to banks and mortgage servicers to modify at-risk loans. This program does not require that the borrower be in default, or late making payments. People who are in trouble, but who have managed to stay current with their payments, are not left out in favor of people who are facing foreclosure. It does, however, exclude people who will not commit to staying in their home -- e.g., speculators and flippers.

(3) Increasing funding for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and purchases of their mortgage securities. The purpose of this is to keep the mortgage market liquid. This step will lower mortgage rates, which will help new home buyers and people who refinance. But it does nothing (directly, at least) for people who took out mortgages they cannot afford.

The second of these steps is the only one that could possibly be said to help people who took out loans they cannot afford at the expense of the rest of us. (The first and third are aimed at different problems entirely.) You don't have to be in default, or late making payments, in order to qualify for it. You do, however, have to be paying more than you can realistically afford.

Note bold text is my emphasis
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Re: Well I was thinking,

PostBy: billw On: Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:24 pm

There are a lot of people, through no fault of their own, are in dire straits. I can empathize with that. I went through my life savings, including my 401k, surviving a three and a half year disability. Here's my problem with this bank bailout. The 5 largest banks are basically insolvent yet they refuse to renegotiate home loans. We (the taxpayers) have to pony up 75 billion so they can act in their own self interest? They shouldn't be getting a dime. The regional bank I do business with didn't get caught up in this subprime mortgage mess. Yet they were given a lot of TARP money. I don't recall the exact number. What did they do with it? Bought up one of their competitors. Again why is taxpayer money going to help a sound bank expand? I don't see any emergency that required that loan, just fattening up their bottom line.

There are many ways to solve this problem without rewarding banks for making stupid loans or people living beyond their means. What I'd like to see the government do instead of just giving banks tons of money and hoping they 'do the right thing' is set up a program similar to what is currently in place for student loans. If you lose a job or take a pay cut you can put your loan in forbearance. This postpones payment for a year without harming your credit. It doesn't forgive the loans or absolve you of your interest obligations, it just gives people some breathing room until they can get on their feet again. After a year the student loan company can modify your loan repayment schedule, stretching out the amount of payback time so the monthly payment is affordable. How many people that just lost a job would jump on that chance.

Again, my gut tells me the taxpayers are getting fleeced one more time.
billw
 
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Re: Well I was thinking,

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:29 pm

Your local bank was FORCED to take the money. Paulson's Plan said that if they only gave money to banks that needed it, then the public would know which banks were irresponsible and a run on those banks would occur. So, like a good game of Three Card Monty, the government hid the bad banks by giving money to everyone.
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