Econo Stove Blower Problems

Johnshan · Post by **Johnshan** » Thu. Aug. 20, 2009 9:41 am

Is there any other reasoning besides the generator? I talked with some electrical engineers at work who tell me that the output from a generator is a pretty perfect sine wave.

Post by **coaledsweat** » Thu. Aug. 20, 2009 9:50 am

Johnshan wrote:I talked with some electrical engineers at work who tell me that the output from a generator is a pretty perfect sine wave.

I think it depends on how the generator is wound or configured whether or not it is a true sine wave.

Flyer5 · Post by **Flyer5** » Tue. Oct. 13, 2009 6:32 pm

Johnshan wrote:Is there any other reasoning besides the generator? I talked with some electrical engineers at work who tell me that the output from a generator is a pretty perfect sine wave.

Not trying to knock anyone . A generator produces a DC output then is converted to a sine wave ,how well this is done is what determines the quality of the power.If it is done properly all is well . But the cheap gensets use cheap electronics as well that's where the problems come from . An alternator creates a true sine wave the frequency is controlled by either the # of poles and or the speed /RPM . I have seen and heard of the cheaper generators cause a lot of damage either over voltage or under voltage ,spikes and surges .Not saying this caused the problem or didn't but I don't think I would discredit it totally.Dave

Johnshan · Post by **Johnshan** » Fri. Oct. 23, 2009 11:11 am

I am the guy with the generator who cant get the stove to run on it.

I have an O-scope and will be taking some readings from my generator tomorrow, I need to make sure I can run this stove on my gen.

My father runs an Alaska Channing on the same generator with no ill effects- I assume he has different motor types.

I think it is the nature of the cheap shaded pole motor, they just cant handle the modified waveforms as well as quality fans do.

gambler · Post by **gambler** » Fri. Oct. 23, 2009 3:39 pm

Johnshan wrote: I assume he has different motor types.
I think it is the nature of the cheap shaded pole motor, they just cant handle the modified waveforms as well as quality fans do.

I will be willing to bet Alaska uses the same fans that LL uses.

I would also check the output of your fathers generator and compare to yours. Even though they are the same model, his may produce cleaner power. What brand of generator is it?

Matthaus · Post by **Matthaus** » Fri. Oct. 23, 2009 11:50 pm

Johnshan wrote:My father runs an Alaska Channing on the same generator with no ill effects- I assume he has different motor types.

I think it is the nature of the cheap shaded pole motor, they just cant handle the modified waveforms as well as quality fans do.

Virtually all stovemanufacturers use essentially the same shaded pole fan motors, either made by fasco (also produced with the dayton name) or AO Smith. The thing to remember is that the Coal-Trol uses an automatically controlled speed controller with electronic circuit board VS the rheostat that is used on the Alaska. This would be the key if there are power problems caused by the generator.

Running any stove that is controlled by a Coal-Trol on a generator can result in an issue of the power is not true sine and fairly clean. I would be interested to see what you find with the O-scope. Keep us posted, we always like a good science project!

Johnshan · Post by **Johnshan** » Sat. Oct. 24, 2009 8:31 pm

Alright here it is, pretty rough waveform:

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The generator is a Coleman Powermate, while it is a Coleman it has a good quality (Subaru) 10 hp engine.

Everything else in the house works great. Time to build a filter or UPS system.

Matthaus · Post by **Matthaus** » Sat. Oct. 24, 2009 8:43 pm

WOAH! Tha O-Scope screen shot is not the power to be used with an electronic speed control (as is found in the Coal-trol), no wonder you had fan problems! The idea for a pure sine UPS is a good one, there are several threads on here with some good suggestions. Not everyone on here has access or the know how to read their generator output as you did, suffice to say folks be careful using any kind of inverter or generator to run your Coal-Trol!

Thanks Johnshan for sharing, very interesting.

Johnshan · Post by **Johnshan** » Sat. Oct. 24, 2009 11:12 pm

My understanding is that unless you purchase a VERY high end generator your likley to have a similar waveform. I will figure out a way to smooth this out.

Rick 386 · Post by **Rick 386** » Wed. Oct. 28, 2009 9:26 pm

Hey Johnshan,

Did you ever get that generator straightened out ????

Rick

WNY · Post by **WNY** » Thu. Oct. 29, 2009 7:55 am

I plugged my keystoker into my generator, no problems, no noise, seemed to work just fine. Will test the Hyfire with Coaltrol once I fire it up to see what it does.

Rick 386 · Post by **Rick 386** » Thu. Oct. 29, 2009 2:55 pm

WNY,

Last year we had an outage. I fired up the Troy Built Generator. In our house I have a generator panel which has the AA 260 ,well pump, etc. connected to it. Across the driveway I ran an extension cord to the sister in law's Alaska Cast Console with the original Alaska controls. I think it fried the stoker motor. Shortly after that day, she started having problems. We eventually replaced the motor under warrany I think. But all of these threads got me a thinkin'........

Rick

WNY · Post by **WNY** » Thu. Oct. 29, 2009 3:46 pm

Thanks!
I will check....also, the keystoker motors all run 100%, there is no rheostats on them, so with the generator, that might be okay, but when you start slowing them down with rheostat, that might be a problem with some generators? not sure, but doesn't hurt to test them. Like with the coaltrol, it varies the convection motors, if I have to, I will plug them in direct so as not to burn them out if it becomes a problem.

Rick 386 · Post by **Rick 386** » Thu. Oct. 29, 2009 4:09 pm

Hmmmm.......

Never thought about the use of the rheostat slowing them down to maybe a problem speed.

You know THAT could be the whole problem with using generators. Those stinking rheostats. Now if only I knew someone with an oscilloscope that could check my generator's output with and without the use of rheostats. Just something else to think about ..................

Rick

coal berner · Post by **coal berner** » Thu. Oct. 29, 2009 4:35 pm

Matthaus wrote:
Johnshan wrote:My father runs an Alaska Channing on the same generator with no ill effects- I assume he has different motor types.

I think it is the nature of the cheap shaded pole motor, they just cant handle the modified waveforms as well as quality fans do.
Virtually all stovemanufacturers use essentially the same shaded pole fan motors, either made by fasco (also produced with the dayton name) or AO Smith. The thing to remember is that the Coal-Trol uses an automatically controlled speed controller with electronic circuit board VS the rheostat that is used on the Alaska. This would be the key if there are power problems caused by the generator.

Running any stove that is controlled by a Coal-Trol on a generator can result in an issue of the power is not true sine and fairly clean. I would be interested to see what you find with the O-scope. Keep us posted, we always like a good science project!

Jakel motor inc . was another one Alaska was using a few years ago until Fasco bought them out .
Not sure about fasco owning AO smith motors Emerson motor Co. Owned Dayton motor there was a recall in 99 2000
first link below

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml01/01504.html

http://www.macraesbluebook.com/search/company.cfm ... any=317756
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