Axeman Anderson Boiler Plumbing

 
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AA130FIREMAN
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Post by AA130FIREMAN » Sat. Feb. 28, 2009 4:35 pm

Hello , I currently have 2 axeman anderson 130 boilers, I am installing one and saving the other for parts. One is an 1948 and the other is from the 80's. I am planning on radiant floor heat between the floor joist 16" centers with 2 pex tubeing in each. The house is a rancher, 1800 sq. ft. The main rooms on one manafold and 3 bedrooms and 1 bath and hallway on a second zone. The first zone I plan on six 270' loops of pex 1/2" fed by 1" to the manafold on one pump. The other zone four 250' loops of pex 1/2" fed by 1" to the manafold. Each with its own pump, taco 00r. A 3rd loop to my garage and a 4th to my a/c air handler in case I need a quick boost of heat. Does this seem like a sound plan and will the loops of pex handle the load for their length ? Also I figured on useing the aluminum heat difuser pannels on the pex under the subfloor? ANY THOUGHTS, I AM NOT A PLUMBER BUT ALWAYS BEEN ABLE TO GET BUY :D HERE IN SOUTH EAST PA.


 
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AA130FIREMAN
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Post by AA130FIREMAN » Sat. Feb. 28, 2009 4:43 pm

Forgot to mention, I will use tempering valves on the radiant subfloor heat, don't want warped floors! 120 temp? Should I keep boiler at 180 or lower it some. Would their be more problems with rust at lower temp ? THANKS

 
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Yanche
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Post by Yanche » Sat. Feb. 28, 2009 6:16 pm

Buy this book by John Siegenthaler, PE.

http://www.hydronicpros.com/publications/index.php?id=24

It will answer all your questions. It comes with software that will allow to design your installation using engineering principles rather than just guessing. Highly recommended.

 
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mozz
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Post by mozz » Sat. Feb. 28, 2009 7:04 pm

You won't need the second for parts. Odds are whatever parts wear out on the first one, would be somewhat worn on the second one. The company is still in business and you can get what you need. I would sell the second one and take that cash and buy some spare parts. Your talking about $1500 and up. The money from selling one will buy you an auger, motor, spare fan and still have cash left over. I rebuilt mine for $150.

 
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AA130FIREMAN
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Post by AA130FIREMAN » Sat. Feb. 28, 2009 7:14 pm

I thought of selling the second one, I may also use in a second garage someday, though it would be overkill. I picked it up complete for $400 :roll: . I JUST COULD NOT CONTROLL MYSELF.

 
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Post by LsFarm » Sat. Feb. 28, 2009 11:56 pm

I wouldn't use radiant floor circuits longer than 200', 180' is better.. You want to have the water temp at the end of the loop to be at an effective level, or you will never keep the floor warm at the end of the loop.

My experience is with 3/4" pex underfloor,, 1/2" may need shorter loop lengths..

Greg L

 
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Freddy
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Post by Freddy » Sun. Mar. 01, 2009 4:35 am

AA130FIREMAN wrote:Also I figured on using the aluminum heat diffuser panels on the pex under the sub floor?
The ones that staple TO the underfloor, or the ones that hang in mid air? The mid air ones use 180* water, I'm not sure if I'm on love with them or not, but they do look easy to install. The staple TO the floor ones are OK I guess. I just have tubing stapled to the underfloor. Staples every 8" or so, two tubes per 16" bay. You need a special foot on a special stapler to do it. Some places rent them.
Yup, no more than 200 ft per loop with 1/2". Water should end up being 130-140*. Boiler never below 145* to prevent condensation.
Only a portion of my house is radiant. I have 800 feet of tubing driven by one 007. It works for me.


 
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AA130FIREMAN
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Post by AA130FIREMAN » Sun. Mar. 01, 2009 6:55 am

I was thinking on the pannels that fasten directly to the subfloor. Are these noisy with expansion and contraction ? Someone told me they would not use the pannels at all, would that be effective and could I put more heat through the tubeing ? I will insulate over the tubeing,some say that I would not need an air space, good idea ? THANKS :)

 
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Yanche
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Post by Yanche » Sun. Mar. 01, 2009 1:53 pm

You are going to be spending many thousands of dollars. Why not buy the book I suggested and get the advise of a Professional Engineer and one who teaches the subject at a trade school community college. It will be the best $150 you ever spent. While the advise you get here on this forum is great, it is shallow in that it comes from each of our personal experiences in situations that may or not pertain to your home or needs. The book covers a much wider range of applications and has the engineering tools to design it, not just guess.

 
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AA130FIREMAN
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Post by AA130FIREMAN » Sun. Mar. 01, 2009 3:16 pm

Yanche, thanks for the book idea, I did look for the book, on ebay it is $132 :shock: , I have a close friend who is a mechanical engineer, I like to see all ideas and come up with a happy medium for my project. Sometimes even the most knowledgable people can give to two different conclusions. I have been doing my homework through the internet. :)

 
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Freddy
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Post by Freddy » Sun. Mar. 01, 2009 4:49 pm

Yup, buy the book. If you take all our advice, then end up with a marginal system, you'll wish you spent 2% of the cost on the book!

Staple up needs insulation under it, and more importantly, a foil surface and the foil must be at lest 2" from the tubing. Some people use just the foil bubble wrap sheets, just make sure it's spaced from the tubing.

 
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Yanche
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Post by Yanche » Sun. Mar. 01, 2009 5:05 pm

Google "John Siegenthaler". You will find a lot of hydronic heating articles he has authored in trade magazines. Look through Taco's web site for technical articles, see:

http://www.taco-hvac.com/en/library.html# and
http://www.taco-hvac.com/en/faq.html

Be sure you understand:

http://www.taco-hvac.com/track_file.html?file_to_ ... d_id=16245

 
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AA130FIREMAN
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Post by AA130FIREMAN » Sun. Mar. 01, 2009 7:28 pm

I have talked with a tech that manufactures the heat difuser pannels, he claimed some spray the insulation without any air space with good results. I don't like the idea of spray insulation, if a problem arises, how do you get to it ! Figured on reflective foil between pex and insulation fiberglass. :idea:

 
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Post by Flyer5 » Sun. Mar. 01, 2009 9:55 pm

AA130FIREMAN wrote:I have talked with a tech that manufactures the heat difuser pannels, he claimed some spray the insulation without any air space with good results. I don't like the idea of spray insulation, if a problem arises, how do you get to it ! Figured on reflective foil between pex and insulation fiberglass. :idea:
I didn't insulate under mine for the downstairs . It also heats the basement & works well . Nice warm floors upstairs and a warm basement . Probably not as efficient. But until I get heat plumbed in the basement it works as is ,even the concrete floor gets warmed by it and I have 10' ceilings in the basement.There is 2" insulation under the floor so I am sure that helps . Dave

 
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Freddy
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Post by Freddy » Mon. Mar. 02, 2009 6:20 am

When I first installed my tubing I put 3 1/2" of fiberglass under it. It was like there was nothing at all! My shop is in the lower level and I was sweating all day. That's when I learned about foil and it needed to be at least 2" from the tubing....something about the physical wavelength of radiant heat.... I added a layer of foil bubble wrap and it cure the problem. Now most all the conductive heat goes up and the radiant heat get's reflected up.


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