Self Defense Firearms Operation For Disabled/Injured

Re: Self Defense Firearms Operation For Disabled/Injured

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:43 pm

SuperBeetle wrote:I actually do shoot both right and left handed. It does take quite a bit of practice to feel confident doing this. I'm a little better and faster right handed. I also throw knives from both sides with my left being stronger and more accurate.


Good practice isn't it John? (just remember the brass is ejected out of the right side of most automatics so wear eye protection, especially when firing left handed!)
Even worse....If you are in a line of people firing, you'll be dodging brass coming from your left all afternoon!! ;)
You should always wear eye & ear protection anyway...& coveralls to keep from ruining your clothes)
Last edited by Devil505 on Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Self Defense Firearms Operation For Disabled/Injured

PostBy: SuperBeetle On: Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:00 pm

Devil505 wrote:
SuperBeetle wrote:I actually do shoot both right and left handed. It does take quite a bit of practice to feel confident doing this. I'm a little better and faster right handed. I also throw knives from both sides with my left being stronger and more accurate.


Good practice isn't it John? (just remember the brass is ejected out of the right side of most automatics so wear eye protection, especially when firing left handed!)
You should always wear eye & ear protection anyway...& coveralls to keep from ruining your clothes)


Yes it is good practice and so is wearing eye and ear protection. I do have some hearing loss in my left ear and the doctor tells me it was caused by not using protection. At least I never had a STD :D :lol: I don't worry about my clothing. :nice:
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Re: Self Defense Firearms Operation For Disabled/Injured

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:14 pm

Magpul Dynamics is another good source.

They have some classes down south this month check the schedule.

The 3 disc video is informative also.

http://www.magpuldynamics.com/
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Re: Self Defense Firearms Operation For Disabled/Injured

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:53 pm

Devil505 wrote:
Poconoeagle wrote:The very wide fan pattern is sure to stop the bear. Note: it is fatal to humans more so than large carnivours.

The performance center version of the model 500 smith is also handy as it 17 1/2" long and weighs much. if the 400gr .50 cal slugs miss. A can of the bear spray sits incognito near the cash register in the shop just because ya never know!!!


I guess those sprays fire like a wide fog & would be good self defense weapons, but I was thinking more in terms of the little, lipstick sized versions of mace or pepper spray that many women carry as their only means of self -defense, & feel protected. These little ones spray in a little stream that I think has little chance of permanently stopping an attack. (many police carry them (bigger versions) as temporary ways of slowing down an attack or to "Motivate" someone until more cops arrive to help them, which is usually almost immediate. They are non-lethal means of TEMPORARY self defense, just as throwing sand in an assailant's face is temporary, & may buy you just a few more seconds of life! (if anyone has FBI statistics on the effectiveness of permanently stopping an attack, I'd love to see them. I'm guessing they are not very effective as a sole means of self defense when no help may be forthcoming.
As brutal, non-liberal & NEANDERTHAL as it sounds, the ONLY way I think a normal person (especially a female) has of permanently ending a serious attack, when no help is available, is simply by killing their attacker. Nothing is quite as permanent as death! :lol: :rambo2:


I totally agree regarding the permanent method. When i thought of the spray I was thinking soley pertaining to disabled/handicapped non gun type folks and the advantage of the pattern available. the pocket spray gimicks are like a Larcin .25 as far as stopping. :roll: naturally a Twin delta elite 10mm Galco rig with 4 spare weighted drop clips might be fun wearing around the house??? 8-)
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Re: Self Defense Firearms Operation For Disabled/Injured

PostBy: coal-cooker On: Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:19 pm

I have carried a handgun in the line of duty since 1971, first in the military, then as a police office and now as a security consultant. I have owned and carried about every type and caliber of handgun available and found most of the medium to large calibers to be adequate for self defense. Anyone, handicapped or not, so long as they have at least one useful hand can protect themself with a firearm. The old adage of keep it simple, stupid works very well here. Even with the variety of handguns I own, I still carry a S&W Chief's Special daily. It's simple, functions flawlessly and has never let me down. First, Get a gun that you can operate with your physical liabilities and thenget a good firearms training course with the gun you are going to carry and then practice, practice, practice. It should become an extension of your body.

"I would much rather go up against a street creep with an UZI, than an IPPC shooter with a snubby." Unknown.
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Re: Self Defense Firearms Operation For Disabled/Injured

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:11 pm

coal-cooker wrote:Get a gun that you can operate with your physical liabilities and thenget a good firearms training course with the gun you are going to carry and then practice, practice, practice. It should become an extension of your body.


Can't disagree with any of that! For those who may be permanently disabled, get a firearm you can operate with your particular handicap & practice as much as you can! For the rest of us, practice doing everything with only one hand, an eye patch over one eye (or any other infirmity you can inflict on yourself ;) ) & I'll bet you'll will find that you'll still be able to load, operate the slide (on automatics) aim & fire by using whatever still works in a dire situation. (Remember the scene where the FBI Agent, with a shot up & useless left arm, was able to work his pump action shotgun by placing the stock between his legs, squeezing the butt with his knees & "Jacking" the action with just his right hand......Not an enviable position to be in, but a workable solution nonetheless, that I believe is now taught as part of Basic Agent firearms training)

As coal-cooker says...practice...practice....practice! Use one hand, load in the dark & get as comfortable as you can with YOUR firearm!
(I'm cutting this short because we had the family over late afternoon & am a bit under the weather right now! :lol: :shots: )

Love to sit back & hear some other tips, stories...whatever from a military perspective or any personnel experiences others here may have.
Last edited by Devil505 on Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Self Defense Firearms Operation For Disabled/Injured

PostBy: gambler On: Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:49 pm

Devil, In that movie clip the you FBI agent in the blue shirt closes his eyes every time he shoots. I hope you guys were taught better and that is just hollywood.
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Re: Self Defense Firearms Operation For Disabled/Injured

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:21 pm

gambler wrote:Devil, In that movie clip the you FBI agent in the blue shirt closes his eyes every time he shoots. I hope you guys were taught better and that is just hollywood.


:lol: :lol: I saw that too!! (we were actually taught to NEVER open our eyes!!!....More challenging that way! :lol: )
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Re: Self Defense Firearms Operation For Disabled/Injured

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:06 pm

Devil505 wrote:
gambler wrote:Devil, In that movie clip the you FBI agent in the blue shirt closes his eyes every time he shoots. I hope you guys were taught better and that is just hollywood.


:lol: :lol: I saw that too!! (we were actually taught to NEVER open our eyes!!!....More challenging that way! :lol: )


Wasn't that lesson about keepin eyes closed the one with the brown paper bag full of money thing.... keep eyes closed??? :shock:
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Re: Self Defense Firearms Operation For Disabled/Injured

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:13 pm

Poconoeagle wrote:Wasn't that lesson about keepin eyes closed the one with the brown paper bag full of money thing.... keep eyes closed??? :shock:
:shh:
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Re: Self Defense Firearms Operation For Disabled/Injured

PostBy: ken On: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:21 pm

Where I live if you call the sheriff , your looking at half an hour or more to get here. :shock: All their good for is writing a report after the fact. I keep my pistol with me where ever I go in the house and yard. I very good with it and have 2 clips. Have a whole house alarm system. Sounds off as soon as a door is opened , also motion detectors here and there. Then theres Buddy , 120 # German Shepherd who would give his life to protect me. :D
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Re: Self Defense Firearms Operation For Disabled/Injured

PostBy: Complete Heat On: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:37 pm

Devil,

Barricade drills are pretty straight forward. Keep as much of your self out of the line of fire, clear your sights and clear your muzzle (make sure that you will not be shooting into the barricade, bullet splatter hurts, not to mention you will be giving away your presence/position). If using a rifle, try to have the weapon supported to increase your accuracy, for pistols, I was taught two handed grip from all positions. Practice shooting from the left & right sides of the barricade, plus over the top of the barricade. One position that gets overlooked is shooting from underneath a barricade, again a two handed grip. When shooting underneath a barricade, typically you will be lying on your side. Since most uses of a weapon are defensive in nature, you must be prepared to fight from where ever you find yourself, and the time to acquire the needed skills is not in the middle of a fire fight. Learn to shoot with both hands, learn how to clear jams, learn how to reload quickly (running out of ammo in a gunfight is not bad luck, it is a reality... deal with it quickly). Practice drawing the weapon with your non-shooting hand, practice one hand reloads, practice clearing jams and releasing the slide one handed. It would really suck to have a weapon that is functional, but due to an injury sustained to your shooting hand/arm, get killed.

Clearing the sights & muzzle may seem pretty straight forward, but there was a sniper in pheonix, AZ that fired 2 shots at a bank robber that was holding a hostage. Both rounds went into the barricade that he was behind. He cleared the sights ( a scope in this case), but failed to clear the muzzle. Because he was able to see the threat through the scope, he assumed all was good. But the muzzle is 2 inches lower than the cross hairs. After the second miss from about 80 yards, he realized his problem and the third shot found its target.

Mike

PS- I am in the right front seat of the helicopter, Harry is out on the skid, and the pilots name is David (he is a great pilot). Clint Smith was trying to get my wife on the cover of the magazine, and took all kinds of pictures of the helicopter flying in "Thunderville" but they did not come out that great. That picture on the cover was snapped 3 off the ground in a hover just before we started a shooting run. The targets we were shooting at were 3' x 3' squares (about the same size as a person crouching) that were filled with chalk (white puffs when you hit it). The altitude was about 60 feet at 60 knots. I am tied with the highest score (9 out of 10), and never thought that any type of accuracy could be achieved from shooting out of a helicopter (except for belt fed weapons). I was wrong. I have a DVD from the course, and if I knew how to load it I would.
Last edited by Complete Heat on Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Self Defense Firearms Operation For Disabled/Injured

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:37 pm

ken wrote:Where I live if you call the sheriff , your looking at half an hour or more to get here. :shock: All their good for is writing a report after the fact.


I agree. The chances of the police ever showing up in time to save your life are slim & none. Women who take court restraining orders out on their husband/boyfriends & then have no means of self-defense are just lambs, lining up to be slaughtered!
I have always told my daughters to be able to protect themselves because no one else will get their fast enough to do it! (I would but I have to be available for coal stove emergencies HERE all the time!! :lol:
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Re: Self Defense Firearms Operation For Disabled/Injured

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:51 pm

Complete Heat wrote:I was taught two handed grip from all positions. Practice shooting from the left & right sides of the barricade, plus over the top of the barricade.


I'm not sure what the current Justice Dept. thinking is in re barricade shooting but we were taught to steady our shooting hand on a thumb as a convenient gun rest. I was taught that way & am used to it, plus it seems to allow you to stay better covered behind the barricade than if you fired from the normal 2 hand position. Also wse were trained to try to avoid firing over the top of a barricade as to much of your face & head are exposed that way. Obviously, all this theoretical crap goes out the window in a real fire fight but training does keep the basics habitual.

Complete Heat wrote:One position that gets overlooked is shooting from underneath a barricade, again a two handed grip. When shooting underneath a barricade, typically you will be lying on your side. Since most uses of a weapon are defensive in nature, you must be prepared to fight from where ever you find yourself, and the time to acquire the needed skills is not in the middle of a fire fight.

I think firing from under a barricade (typically a motor vehicle) is probably taught now (not even mentioned in my training) as I think one of the North Hollywood bank robbers was brought down by shooting his legs from underneath a car, since he was wearing torso armor.
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Re: Self Defense Firearms Operation For Disabled/Injured

PostBy: Devil505 On: Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:00 am

Complete Heat wrote:PS- I am in the right front seat of the helicopter, Harry is out on the skid, and the pilots name is David (he is a great pilot). Clint Smith was trying to get my wife on the cover of the magazine, and took all kinds of pictures of the helicopter flying in "Thunderville" but they did not come out that great.


Looks like a blast!

I'm sure there were/are lots of differences in the firearms techniques you military guys use vs what us LEO's need. (It's a rare occasion when we LEO's find ourselves attacked by hordes of Chinese Infantrymen all doped up & charging us in a human wave!!)

Although anti-terrorist SWAT teams (Like FBI's HRT) must train to fight like mini-military groups) Be nice to have some military units help us LEO's sometime but then you run afoul of the Posse Comitatus laws.
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