Can the Govt really fix the economy?

Re: Can the Govt really fix the economy?

PostBy: tvb On: Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:12 am

So, Jeff, how do you propose paying for things like police and fire, public works such as water and sewer infrastructure and road maintainance, food and ag inspections and all the other things govt has a vital role in performing?

You thinking self-policing will work? Because as you know, it's worked really good the past 8 years as bushco tried to farm out vital govt responsibilities to his friends and donors and called for more self-enforcement. :lol:
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Re: Can the Govt really fix the economy?

PostBy: cabinover On: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:15 am

Do you really think Obama's flunkies are any different? How many can't figure out how to pay taxes yet they are accountants?

Hate to say it but they're all cut from the same cloth. It's always about "what's in it for me" and not "what's in the best interest of the country".

Just got the latest Reader's Digest. In their That's Outrageous column this month is how your Congressmen/women and Senators spend about 33% of their time soliciting their next ticket into the chair via donations. If votes are missed because they are busy rubbing elbows so be it according to them.

Do I think that's a great idea? No!

Nor do I believe that we need to fund their running with public funds like Obama wants to do.

They're all dirtbags. Republican, Democrats, ANYONE that seeks any public office should immediately be dismissed as a fool.
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Re: Can the Govt really fix the economy?

PostBy: jpete On: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:51 am

tvb wrote:So, Jeff, how do you propose paying for things like police and fire, public works such as water and sewer infrastructure and road maintainance, food and ag inspections and all the other things govt has a vital role in performing?

You thinking self-policing will work? Because as you know, it's worked really good the past 8 years as bushco tried to farm out vital govt responsibilities to his friends and donors and called for more self-enforcement. :lol:

I didn't say "all taxes" did I? If there were more direct taxes, people would pay more attention to how much their government costs. And they might start getting upset at how little quality they get for their money.
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Re: Can the Govt really fix the economy?

PostBy: spc On: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:06 pm

Reality setting in for liberals. :wtf:

"But I am sick and tired of being taxed because I’ve done well for myself." - Whoopi Goldberg

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/justin-mcc ... -her-taxes

"I'm telling you right now," Mr. Baldwin declared, "if these tax breaks are not reinstated into the budget, film production in this town is going to collapse ..." - Alec Baldwin

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 5439126181
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Re: Can the Govt really fix the economy?

PostBy: jpete On: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:23 pm

Psssh. Baldwin. That turd. Wasn't he supposed to move out of the country eight years ago?
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Re: Can the Govt really fix the economy?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:52 pm

jpete wrote:So you plan is to expand the Bush policies? Don't look now Devil but your hypocracy is showing.


No hypocrisy at all. The Bailouts were NOT Bush policies but emergency actions demanded by both sides if you'll remember. Didn't McCain "Suspend" his campaign to rush back & make sure these private debts were socialized? Bailouts didn't suddenly become "Socialism" until 1/21/2009 when President Obama took office.


jpete wrote:Here's my specific ideas. Tell the Federal Reserve they can find new victims. Abolish income and property taxes. Lower the capital gains tax. Pull all or most of our troops out from around the world. Stop illegal immigration. Kill NAFTA.


Now we're getting somewhere!

1. Not sure what your specific complaint is with the Federal Reserve?
2. I'd agree to abolition of both income & property taxes if we could work out a consumption tax of some kind, but I don't think that has anything to do with our present economic crisis & fail to see how it would help??
3. Lowering of capital gains tax won't help either, imo.
4. I agree with pulling all our troops out & just leaving mobile quick reaction forces (at sea or in friendly countries) to go after terrorists wherever we find them.
5. Stopping illegal immigration is like saying...Let's stop bad weather. (not going to happen)
6. NAFTA needs modification.
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Re: Can the Govt really fix the economy?

PostBy: jpete On: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:47 pm

Devil505 wrote: 1. Not sure what your specific complaint is with the Federal Reserve?


They control the price of money and keep us all in debt. It is the job of the Treasury. Congress gave away oversight and they can take it back.

Devil505 wrote: 2. I'd agree to abolition of both income & property taxes if we could work out a consumption tax of some kind, but I don't think that has anything to do with our present economic crisis & fail to see how it would help??


If you could keep 30+% of your income, would you be able to "stimulate" the economy? I know I could.

Devil505 wrote: 3. Lowering of capital gains tax won't help either, imo.


Again, anytime the people can keep more of their money, it's a good thing to me.

Devil505 wrote: 4. I agree with pulling all our troops out & just leaving mobile quick reaction forces (at sea or in friendly countries) to go after terrorists wherever we find them.


We can put people into any country in 24-48 hours. No need to keep spending money in Germany or the Philippines.

Devil505 wrote: 5. Stopping illegal immigration is like saying...Let's stop bad weather. (not going to happen)


So are you saying that the USA can't do whatever it put it's collective minds to? ;) That's hardly patriotic. We COULD do it if there were a collective will. But the R's get a slave labor force and the D's get new voters so there is no will to stop it.

Devil505 wrote: 6. NAFTA needs modification.


Besides big evil companies maximizing profits, what are "we the people" getting out of it? Besides salmonella in our spinach I mean. NAFTA needs to be eliminated. "Free" trade is a myth, kind of like a "free lunch". Free means someone else is paying.
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Re: Can the Govt really fix the economy?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:38 pm

jpete wrote: Devil505 wrote: 3. Lowering of capital gains tax won't help either, imo.

Again, anytime the people can keep more of their money, it's a good thing to me.

It would mainly help the already wealthy & have no effect on the middle class who drive the economy.




jpete wrote: Devil505 wrote: 4. I agree with pulling all our troops out & just leaving mobile quick reaction forces (at sea or in friendly countries) to go after terrorists wherever we find them.

We can put people into any country in 24-48 hours. No need to keep spending money in Germany or the Philippines


Sometimes 24-48 hrs isn't fast enough. We need some troops forward deployed.





jpete wrote: Devil505 wrote: 5. Stopping illegal immigration is like saying...Let's stop bad weather. (not going to
happen)

So are you saying that the USA can't do whatever it put it's collective minds to? ;) That's hardly patriotic. We COULD do it if there were a collective will. But the R's get a slave labor force and the D's get new voters so there is no will to stop it


That's exactly what I'm saying. We can no more stop illegal immigration through putting "Our Collective Minds" to it then we good stop GRAVITY by putting "Our Collective Minds" to it!! Has nothing to do with patriotism......... that's an absurd statement! :down:
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Re: Can the Govt really fix the economy?

PostBy: jpete On: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:12 pm

Devil505 wrote:
jpete wrote: Devil505 wrote: 3. Lowering of capital gains tax won't help either, imo.

Again, anytime the people can keep more of their money, it's a good thing to me.

It would mainly help the already wealthy & have no effect on the middle class who drive the economy.


Rich people don't buy boats? That's funny because I though RI did away with the sales tax on boats and the boat building industry here exploded. And every one of those people building those boats earns between $60 and $90k/year. Solidly middle class if you ask me.




Devil505 wrote:
jpete wrote: Devil505 wrote: 4. I agree with pulling all our troops out & just leaving mobile quick reaction forces (at sea or in friendly countries) to go after terrorists wherever we find them.

We can put people into any country in 24-48 hours. No need to keep spending money in Germany or the Philippines


Sometimes 24-48 hrs isn't fast enough. We need some troops forward deployed.


Why can't other countries take care of terrorist activities in their countries? Must we be the police of the world forever?

Devil505 wrote:
jpete wrote: Devil505 wrote: 5. Stopping illegal immigration is like saying...Let's stop bad weather. (not going to
happen)

So are you saying that the USA can't do whatever it put it's collective minds to? ;) That's hardly patriotic. We COULD do it if there were a collective will. But the R's get a slave labor force and the D's get new voters so there is no will to stop it


That's exactly what I'm saying. We can no more stop illegal immigration through putting "Our Collective Minds" to it then we good stop GRAVITY by putting "Our Collective Minds" to it!! Has nothing to do with patriotism......... that's an absurd statement! :down:


So there is NO WAY that we could enforce current laws, not give welfare to illegals, deport them if they show up at the hospital, prosecute business owners who employ them, use the E-Verify database, etc. There's no possible way to do that? Ridiculous. We don't WANT to stop it. Period.
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Re: Can the Govt really fix the economy?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:19 pm

jpete wrote:So there is NO WAY that we could enforce current laws, not give welfare to illegals, deport them if they show up at the hospital, prosecute business owners who employ them, use the E-Verify database, etc. There's no possible way to do that? Ridiculous. We don't WANT to stop it. Period.


There is no way to prevent it as long as there's a market for the cheap labor they provide. Just like Prohibition & the War on Drugs are & were doomed to failure as long as there was/is a huge demand for them. Law Enforcement can never be the answer, you have to stop demand...the supply is endless & will always find way to get into the country!
Last edited by Devil505 on Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can the Govt really fix the economy?

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:20 pm

It could be stopped real quick if you keep the do gooders out of it. Trouble now is it was allowed to go on for so long who-ever is put along the border is surrounded from the start. Why does everyone have so much trouble with worrying about an illegal`s rights? If your in this or any other country you have no rights. You left them when you crossed the border.
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Re: Can the Govt really fix the economy?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:23 pm

samhill wrote:t could be stopped real quick if you keep the do gooders out of it.


how??...As long as unscrupulous employers are willing to break the law to get cheap labor, how do you stop it?
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Re: Can the Govt really fix the economy?

PostBy: stockingfull On: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:24 pm

samhill wrote:It could be stopped real quick if you keep the do gooders out of it. Trouble now is it was allowed to go on for so long who-ever is put along the border is surrounded from the start. Why does everyone have so much trouble with worrying about an illegal`s rights? If your in this or any other country you have no rights. You left them when you crossed the border.

Yeah, like those "do-gooders" at the US Chamber of Commerce, whose small biz members kinda like that off-the-books labor, you know, the labor that keeps prices low and profits high by working for cash and without benefits.... :roll:

Look, the plain fact of the matter is that, if nobody was willing to pay cash for cheap labor, this problem would go away faster than the bank stocks in the last quarter.
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Re: Can the Govt really fix the economy?

PostBy: jpete On: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:55 pm

Devil505 wrote:
jpete wrote:So there is NO WAY that we could enforce current laws, not give welfare to illegals, deport them if they show up at the hospital, prosecute business owners who employ them, use the E-Verify database, etc. There's no possible way to do that? Ridiculous. We don't WANT to stop it. Period.


There is no way to prevent it as long as there's a market for the cheap labor they provide. Just like Prohibition & the War on Drugs are & were doomed to failure as long as there was/is a huge demand for them. Law Enforcement can never be the answer, you have to stop demand...the supply is endless & will always find way to get into the country!


Yeah. That's kind of why I threw that 'prosecute business owners who employ them' line. When a few guys get led out of their houses in handcuffs with a raincoat over their head, things would change QUICK.

And a couple more raids by ICE would go a long way. First we have to shoot the ACLU. We had a raid at the county courthouse and picked up a couple dozen illegals. And surprise, surprise, the cleaning crews at the local colleges either left early or didn't show up. But the state "immigrant advocate" said his phone was ringing off the hook within minutes of the raid. There is an underground network of state legislators who lobby for the sanctuary state, "immigrant advocates" and illegal immigrants who look out for each other.
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Re: Can the Govt really fix the economy?

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:58 pm

Devil505 wrote:
jpete wrote:So there is NO WAY that we could enforce current laws, not give welfare to illegals, deport them if they show up at the hospital, prosecute business owners who employ them, use the E-Verify database, etc. There's no possible way to do that? Ridiculous. We don't WANT to stop it. Period.


There is no way to prevent it as long as there's a market for the cheap labor they provide. Just like Prohibition & the War on Drugs are & were doomed to failure as long as there was/is a huge demand for them. Law Enforcement can never be the answer, you have to stop demand...the supply is endless & will always find way to get into the country!


Actually, you can prevent it. Simply lower every U.S. citizens standard of living to that of the infiltrating 3rd world immigrant. Problem solved, equality for all. With the incentive to achieve a higher standard of living removed, we can all wallow in the same muck.
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