"Affordable" health care advocates explain this please.

Re: "Affordable" health care advocates explain this please.

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:24 pm

tvb wrote:What year? (or at least thereabouts what year?)


I can't find that information anywhere. Even on the state website. I did find this.

There are fundamental differences between
RI’s three insurers, Blue Cross & Blue Shield of
RI (Blue Cross), United Healthcare of New
England (United), and Neighborhood Health
Plan of RI (Neighborhood or NHP). Blue Cross
is a state-chartered, non-profit hospital and
medical services corporation
. United, is a forprofit
HMO, and wholly owned subsidiary of
UnitedHealthcare Services, Inc. NHP is a nonprofit
HMO that is domiciled and licensed only
in RI. NHP only participates in the Medicaid
(RIte Care) line of business.


From this report
http://www.health.ri.gov/chic/performance/insurers2006.pdf
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
Last edited by jpete on Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Affordable" health care advocates explain this please.

PostBy: tvb On: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:32 pm

Thanks for looking - I was just trying to put it into perspective around the for-profit, not for profit paradigms.

Do you know if BCBS, as a non-profit subsidized model, can exclude based on pre-existing conditions or is it a take all comers?
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Re: "Affordable" health care advocates explain this please.

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:58 pm

I think if you have the $$$ they will insure you. My company is based in Illinois(the North American part of a UK company anyway) and during the last contract, they gave us the "option" of staying with RI BCBS for $150/wk or the "corporate" BCBS for $130/wk(family plans). The corporate plan is out of Pennsylvania. Who knows what will happen in August when the contract is up. I was paying $30/wk in 2000 when I first got there.
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Re: "Affordable" health care advocates explain this please.

PostBy: stockingfull On: Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:01 am

OK, in the spirit of the pending debate, which one's which?

> > A wealthy hospital benefactor was being shown around the hospital.
> >
> > During her tour she passed a room where a male patient was
> > masturbating furiously.
> >
> > 'Oh my GOD!' screamed the woman. 'That's disgraceful! Why is he doing
> > that?'
> > The doctor who was leading the tour calmly explained, 'I'm very sorry
> > that you were exposed to that, but this man has a serious condition
> > where his testicles rapidly fill with semen, and if he doesn't do that
> > at least five times a day, he'll be in extreme pain and his testicles
> > could easily rupture.
> >
> > Oh, well in that case, I guess it's okay, said the woman.
> >
> > As they passed by the very next room, they saw a male patient laying
> > in bed while a nurse performed oral sex on him. Again, the woman
> > screamed, 'Oh my GOD! How can THAT be justified?
> >
> > Again the doctor spoke very calmly:
> >
> > 'Same illness, better insurance.'
> >
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Re: "Affordable" health care advocates explain this please.

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:15 am

stockingfull wrote:Lisa, unless you reject all insurance, your anti-gov't argument makes no sense.

Insurance companies collect money from everybody they insure, pool whatever the "risk" is and then make decisions about who gets the money, and when.

What's the diff between that and "private gov't"?



HUH?

WTF Jon?

Are you kidding?

The difference is profit, efficiency, choice.

Speed, Quality, Price. Pick any two.
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Re: "Affordable" health care advocates explain this please.

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:32 am

stockingfull wrote:I don't want to go back to the pre-HMO days because people didn't get preventative care back then.

And preventative care is no "Cadillac system," it's nothing more than the basic, immutable logic of the Fram filter guy: an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. It may not be 1/16 of the cost but there's no doubt that it's the key to fixing the system. Managing people's health minimizes the obscene expense of acute illness.

Of all the debates we have here, this one's the easiest. HMO's have proved that preventative care is the way to keep the population healthy -- and to do so economically. And we see that proven over and over in every population that's monitored, from HMO patients to executives to astronauts.


"preventive care" = deferred costs. Terminal illnesses, are where the massive costs occur. These illnesses are not prevented they are deferred. Cancer is the big problem. If you prevent all the rest of terminal illnesses, you will probably get cancer, a huge and costly part of hcc.

In the case of heart disease, another huge contributor to hcc, early detection=early treatment. Early treatment=frequent re-treatment and lots of drugs. It all ends with the same massive expenditures in the last year of someone's life who's dying of a terminal illness and the heroic measures they take to prolong life.

As for prevention, there aren't any known preventive measures not being employed. There is nothing more you can do short of putting a gun to people's heads to stop certain unhealthy life-shortening behavior. Oops, but shorter lifes incur less cost. It's a catch-22.

No savings there. No proof to your argument either. Lots of lipservice, no comprehensive numbers. Health care costs were unchanged by HMO's and their "preventive care". That much is documented.

The point is, health care costs money. We need to pay the bills out of our pockets; not with a credit card, neither ours nor the federal government's.
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Re: "Affordable" health care advocates explain this please.

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:16 am

stockingfull - You still haven't answered my question - why would you want to have any more government in your life? Especially over a potentially live or die question and especially since we do have a viable alternative which while not prefect is better then giving away the farm. Let’s tweak that. You are leaving me with the opinion that you feel a huge government organization can make better choice over life and death matters then you can. I know that’s not a decision I’m willing to give to a committee whose bottom line is foremost on its mind.
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Re: "Affordable" health care advocates explain this please.

PostBy: stockingfull On: Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:53 am

Mike, you sound like a broken record, no new points at all.

Lisa, if I have to choose for my HMO between an unregulated (I found out yesterday to my surprise that the insurance industry isn't subject to anti-trust regulation :fear: ) profit-making company and what amounts to a co-op where I get to vote on the board members from time to time, I'll take the latter, thank you very much.

(For example, anybody still want to "privatize" social security after what's happened in the last 6 months?)

But the point, Lisa, is that, if you wouldn't make the same choice as I would make, you won't have to.

So ... game over.
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Re: "Affordable" health care advocates explain this please.

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:40 pm

stockingfull wrote:So ... game over.


You still haven't answered my question - why would you want the government to be in your life anymore then it is? Game over? I don't think so. You can chose not to play but that doesn't make it game over. Lisa
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Re: "Affordable" health care advocates explain this please.

PostBy: stockingfull On: Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:00 pm

I think I did answer your question.

I'd rather have an entity that I have a voice in, rather than a corporation beholden to its shareholders, providing my health insurance. In this case, that will be the "public option."

If you like, you can keep what you have.

BTW, how do you feel about "privatizing" social security?
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Re: "Affordable" health care advocates explain this please.

PostBy: tvb On: Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:55 pm

jpete wrote:I think if you have the $$$ they will insure you. My company is based in Illinois(the North American part of a UK company anyway) and during the last contract, they gave us the "option" of staying with RI BCBS for $150/wk or the "corporate" BCBS for $130/wk(family plans). The corporate plan is out of Pennsylvania. Who knows what will happen in August when the contract is up. I was paying $30/wk in 2000 when I first got there.


This is a good thing and it's something that they are probably forced to do because they receive gov't money. This will be one of the benefits of UHC when people are not able to be excluded because of pre-existing conditions. I have a metabolic issue I was born with and unless I am in a group (employer sponsored insurance), I am unable to obtain insurance on the open market. Trust me, I've tried. I would love to start my own business but I can't because in the eyes of insurance companies, I am not insurable.

For what it is worth, because I am employed, I have very good insurance and even as the recipient of very good insurance, I am still in favor of UHC. Until this year I didn't even have a co-pay for hospital services or surgery services. It changed this year to the worse however and now has a 10% co-pay for surgery and hospital services to an out of pocket max of $1500. Dr. visit copay is $20 and no referrals are needed for specialists. For this I pay $70/month for just me. The family is covered under my SOs plan which has no premiums.
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Re: "Affordable" health care advocates explain this please.

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:26 am

stockingfull wrote:I think I did answer your question.

I'd rather have an entity that I have a voice in, rather than a corporation beholden to its shareholders, providing my health insurance. In this case, that will be the "public option."

If you like, you can keep what you have.

BTW, how do you feel about "privatizing" social security?


I'd like to eliminate social security. If such a plan were devised by an insurance company the insurance regulators would laugh at it.
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Re: "Affordable" health care advocates explain this please.

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:29 am

stockingfull wrote:Mike, you sound like a broken record, no new points at all.


And what was YOUR new point, Jon?

I guess you're the same old broken record.

(And I do mean old, since you know what a broken record is!) :lol:
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