"Affordable" health care advocates explain this please.

It's "universal healthcare," Mike. It's the same healthcare you have and like (or should have and like if you don't), only everybody has it.

What about that don't you get?

stockingfull wrote:So it sure looks like the old "shorter lives save money" thesis is being dusted off in the GOP, at least in Mike's corner of it.

Aren't you boys also the labor advocates looking for shorter work weeks and earlier retirements? How do you propose to fund the retirements of Americans if they do live longer but work the same or less?

The total obligations of the US with SS is 47 TRILLION.

You boys need to learn to look at the math.

Mike, I'm serious: you're really onto something. In the 30's it was called the "Final Solution."

Gonna save you a ton of money.

stockingfull wrote:It's "universal healthcare," Mike. It's the same healthcare you have and like (or should have and like if you don't), only everybody has it.

What about that don't you get?

What happened to "affordable"?

You have taken one step towards honesty.

Good boy, Stock, good boy.

For the umpteenth time, focusing on preventative care will make it affordable.

stockingfull wrote:Mike, I'm serious: you're really onto something. In the 30's it was called the "Final Solution."

Gonna save you a ton of money.

You first.

If you would bother to actually read my posts, you'd understand that I am not against a system reform for healthcare that includes industry regulation and coverage for the poor. But I am against cadillac coverage for the poor on my dollar. I am also against a universal care that costs me a level of quality.

stockingfull wrote:For the umpteenth time, focusing on preventative care will make it affordable.

For the umpteenth time, affordability comes at the expense of quality and speed of service. That's what other socialized programs in other nations are demonstrating.

You sayin' it don't make it so.

Wha?

What about those other nations saying so?

BTW, what the hell is your first name?

and what does Stockingfull mean?

Who's said our plan is going to be identical to that of some particular other country for purposes of comparison?

I do not concede, any more than I did for your completely invalid "zero sum" analysis, that quality, or speed, or price will have to be sacrificed to reform the system -- at least as compared with the profit-driven private system we now have. To the contrary, I believe it will be better, faster and cheaper per capita than our currently-broken system.

My first name is Jon, and stockingfull refers to old yuletide threats when I was a kid. Get it?

stockingfull wrote:Who's said our plan is going to be identical to that of some particular other country for purposes of comparison?

I do not concede, any more than I did for your completely invalid "zero sum" analysis, that quality, or speed, or price will have to be sacrificed to reform the system -- at least as compared with the profit-driven private system we now have. To the contrary, I believe it will be better, faster and cheaper per capita than our currently-broken system.

My first name is Jon, and stockingfull refers to old yuletide threats when I was a kid. Get it?

In the machine shop, we have a saying "Fast, Cheap, Right. Pick any two."

In this instance, we have, "Quality, Speed, Price. Pick any two."

I'm sorry but that's the way the world works.

When are you guys gonna get it?

The reason HMO's made so many people rich is that they figured out that, by keeping people healthy with preventative care, you reduced the incidence of acute illness to such a degree that the savings not only paid for the preventative care but also the (reduced quantity of) acute care and the mansions and motor yachts of the insurance execs.

But you geniuses are still making widgets in a machine shop. Try thinking of the Fram filter guy; whole lot cheaper to change the oil than the motor.

stockingfull wrote:When are you guys gonna get it?

The reason HMO's made so many people rich is that they figured out that, by keeping people healthy with preventative care, you reduced the incidence of acute illness to such a degree that the savings not only paid for the preventative care but also the (reduced quantity of) acute care and the mansions and motor yachts of the insurance execs.

But you geniuses are still making widgets in a machine shop.

And those widgets are the source of wealth, in fact, the only source of real wealth in the world.

You geniuses are still trusting the same people that screwed everyone by setting up the HMO's(Congress) to fix the problem they created!

Dude, you're still not getting it.

I'm not criticizing the widgets; I'm criticizing the invalid, inapplicable zero-sum "machine shop" logic that healthcare is a pure production system where something always has to give in order to improve something else.

It's not.