GM - Possibly lost chance at Reorganization

GM - Possibly lost chance at Reorganization

PostBy: billlindley On: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:34 am

Another nail in the coffin of the once proud General Motors came today as it’s auditors officially expressed there concern that GM is failing and will soon be bankrupt. While congress was debating whether or not to “bailout” Detroit many people felt (myself included) that the best thing for them to do was reorganize under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. This would allow them to tear up union contracts and change the business to meets today’s economic and competitive environment. Well we all know that the government gave them money that they went thru and now the option or Chp 11 reorg might be gone. Now they might be faced with Chapter 7 bankruptcy which is a liquidation and not a reorganization.

The actual wording from the auditors - "The corporation's recurring losses from operations, stockholders' deficit, and inability to generate sufficient cash flow to meet its obligations and sustain its operations raise substantial doubt about its ability to continue as a going concern," auditors for the accounting firm Deloitte & Touche LLP wrote in the report.
billlindley
 
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Re: GM - Possibly lost chance at Reorganization

PostBy: acesover On: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:07 am

Damm, bad news boys, I'm a Chevy, GMC guy. Never could afford a Viet. Looks like I never will have one now. God bless America and GM. Who do we thank for this. I'll start with my elected officials, yea I know there are some who will blame the unions, I don't know which one to blame, guess it's just greed all around. All I know it sucks and ... WHAT NOW. What do you think coal Brothers.
Ray
acesover
 
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Re: GM - Possibly lost chance at Reorganization

PostBy: traderfjp On: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:18 am

You can blame the designers who came up with one unreliable dog after another and the top brass who milked the company and ran GM into the ground.
traderfjp
 
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Re: GM - Possibly lost chance at Reorganization

PostBy: billw On: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:25 am

GM's management never changed with the times. It was OK in the 50's and 60's to keep all of those divisions because each one of them represented a car company GM bought up and most, if not all, of car purchases were American made. Along came the European and Asian manufacturers that gave the American public more choices than they needed. Why market a Camaro and a Firebird when they were basically the same car. They continue to do it to this day. The Pontiac Solstice and the Saturn Sky are the same platform. It makes no sense. If you're interested in that car you'll buy it whether it's called a Pontiac or a Saturn.
15 -20 years ago GM should have combined their trucks under the GMC banner and eliminated the majority of their separate divisions. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20. I've owned chevy's most of my adult life, hate to see them go. Maybe it's time to buy an 89 firebird and get it restored before you can't buy parts.
billw
 
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Re: GM - Possibly lost chance at Reorganization

PostBy: billlindley On: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:43 am

You have to blame everyone involved. It's easy to blame the big wigs but at the end of the day even during this dire time as the company is obviously failing Gettelfinger walked out of the talks before the government imposed Feb 17th deadline for a restructuring plan. Heck I have always said 70-80% of your wages are better then no wages. I just had my yearly review and I was disappointed with my small 3% raise but you know what? In this environment I’d rather be employed with a crappy raise then have no income at all. You can only get some much blood from a stone.

billw wrote: Why market a Camaro and a Firebird when they were basically the same car. They continue to do it to this day. The Pontiac Solstice and the Saturn Sky are the same platform. It makes no sense. If you're interested in that car you'll buy it whether it's called a Pontiac or a Saturn..


I remember as a young child asking my dad why all those cars looked exactly the same. I mean you look at what they are making today and you could basically take a Tahoe, put a few badges on it and be driving a Cadiallac!
billlindley
 
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Re: GM - Possibly lost chance at Reorganization

PostBy: e.alleg On: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:05 pm

I've changed a lot of GM transmissions over the years. Every GM car and truck I had got a new tranny within 60k miles. Quality baby.
e.alleg
 
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Re: GM - Possibly lost chance at Reorganization

PostBy: coalmeister On: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:43 pm

Lazy and greed, that sums it up. Ever know anyone who worked at GM on 2nd or 3rd shift? Some would take turns covering for one another as they headed for the bars, slept the night away on hidden mattresses, played cards or just goofed off.

I know of a plant several years ago, when things were booming, that had 400 people with no job description so they hung out at the cafeteria or slept or read the paper. The plant never modernized their equipment as efficiency was not an issue with hundreds of people milling around. Now they are getting hammered by modern automated Japanese and even European transplants. I asked how could management roll over and let this happen, and was told they were not too worried as they were retiring soon with fat packages of their own.

Who can forget the crushing strikes of the past, think Janesville Wisconsin SUV/truck plant when both were hot sellers. GM was losing tens of million per day during the strike, and had no choice but to cave to the endless demands. Most retirees are making more in retirement than you do working.

Lets not forget the top dogs with their fat multi million bonuses in good times and bad, their jetting to FL for golf weekends, showing up in Washington in their Gulfstreams with their hands out. Die you gravy sucking pigs!! :mad: :mad: There I feel better :lol:

"Let them eat cake", greedy sob's, all of em".
coalmeister
 
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Re: GM - Possibly lost chance at Reorganization

PostBy: Paulie On: Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:04 am

Do not forget the disloyal buying public. Yes, they have had quality issues over the years, no doubt. As far as a tranny
every 60k, simple tranny service every 30k would prevent that. You buy what you want. Globalization has been and continues
to be a loser for our country. It would be one thing if the playing field was even and fair, it is not. We loose jobs and get
what in return? $29. DVD player. GM will go down, it is just too big. It is sad really, and amazing that it took this long
to collapse. The Japs are reeling now too, just not down. I have always bought American cars, Ford specifically . We will
see if they can survive. Chrysler is toast, the only brand of value they have is Jeep, and you can only sell so many of those.
Paulie
 
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Re: GM - Possibly lost chance at Reorganization

PostBy: JB Sparks On: Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:39 am

Bought a new Chevy cargo van in 2007. Best Chevy i ever owned, too bad it's a day late and a dollar short. GM never cared that the people wanted quality for their money until it was too late and the greed of both Management and Unions just made it worse.
JB Sparks
 
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Re: GM - Possibly lost chance at Reorganization

PostBy: Freddy On: Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:10 am

What will be will be.

For years we drove what ever junk we could afford. When we got so we could afford something better we bought a fairly new Cutlas Supreme. It still had over a yrs warranty on it. During that year we had so many problems that GM offered us a $1,000 check good toward buying any brand new GM product. We took them up on it. (Long story short....) Because of mechanical issues, over the next 2 or 3 months we owned THREE different GM cars, a Cutless Sierra and two Cutless Supremes. When the third one left us stranded I had enough. I told the dealer "Keep it. GM might build a good car, but they have not delivered one to ME. Do what ever you want with the paper work". Bottom line, I drove GM's for about a year and I made that many payments. We went to Ford and drove used Tauruses for years. They were OK. Last year we had saved enough to go buy our very first brand new car. The wife wanted a four wheel drive as she needs to go to work regardless of weather and finally we could afford the extra safety of a 4WD. So, we tried every small 4WD car, Ford, Saturn, Suburu, Honda, Toyota, etc. Even jokingly looked at Mercedes ($77,000, 13 MPG). We compared price, mileage, value. We talked to friends, read reports. We test drove them all except the Toyota. As much as we'd have loved to give our money to Ford or any American make, we refused to pay an extra $3-4,000 for 3-5 MPG less fuel mileage. We bought a Honda CRV, which happens to be the #1 selling all wheel drive on the planet. There's a reason that it's #1!
Freddy
 
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Re: GM - Possibly lost chance at Reorganization

PostBy: gambler On: Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:31 am

I say let them go down the shitter.
Someone else will buy them once they have closed and reopen them under "CMC" Chinese Motors Corporation.
And all of those displaced workers will be scrambling to get a job there at 1/2 of what they used to make.
It is a shame that it has to happen but why keep GM on life support with no chance of recovery.
Pull the plug!
gambler
 
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Re: GM - Possibly lost chance at Reorganization

PostBy: billlindley On: Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:50 pm

If they build it they will buy it if they want it. The american public has shown they don't want it. They want dependable cars that have unique styling that get well over 100,000 miles. My previous car was a 2003 Chevy Malbu that at 70,000 miles decided it want a new tranny along with a boatload of other parts. The value on that car in 2006? $3,800. A 3 year old $24,000 chevy had lost 84% of it's value. My girlfriend has a 99 Toyota Tacoma with 104,000 miles on it sitting in the driveway as we speak. That 10 year old truck that was $24,000 new still has about a$7,000 - $8,000 value. That says something......
billlindley
 
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Re: GM - Possibly lost chance at Reorganization

PostBy: CoaLen On: Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:07 pm

Gambler nailed it. I couldn't believe the government thought giving GM would do anyhting but stall the inevitable. But then I realized that's exactly what the goal was with the bailout money to GM.
General Motors needed to reorganize, play by a new set of rules under new management and could have come back stronger than ever. It would have been painful for awhile in a lot of different ways but there would have been a chance of an upside.
Now they may just simply go away.
The cards are beginning to fall, big time. :sick:
CoaLen
 
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Re: GM - Possibly lost chance at Reorganization

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:59 pm

Paulie wrote:Do not forget the disloyal buying public. Yes, they have had quality issues over the years, no doubt.


The big 3 automakers lost my business when a simple fuel pump replacement after only 20,000 miles turned into a major repair because the "fuel pump is in the gas tank." That was the final straw. The first was when I brought a Chevy Astro Van and discovered the Dutch rear doors leaked. I discovered that driving alone cross country with two Akitas and 3 small kids. It rained from Omaha to Pittsburg. Talk about fun times and good memories. It was a used car so I gave them the benefit of the doubt that time but then I brought a brand new Astro Van because I really liked the floor plan and discovered the first night that the leaking was systematic to the Astro Van and the company knew it. They just didn't care to correct the problem at the factory. Oh, no it was much easier to fix it after market if someone complained - so what if the entire interior carpeting was ruined on a 1 day old car. The car smelled the rest of the time we had it. Ownership of our "American" cars got super expensive. Our monthly bill for basic maintenance and repair quickly became larger then our monthly payment. They were "nickel and diming" us to death.

Our first Toyota we drove for over 150,000 miles with only routine maintenance - the occasional brake replacement and the like. When we finally ditched the Astor van we got two Corollas and are approaching 100,000 miles on each of them with only routine maintenance.

When we spend our hard earned money we expect to get some basic level of quality. Toyota has given us that, American cars haven't. So don't give me any crap "about the disloyal buying public" - time was when you could buy American and get your moneys worth. My only compromise to buying American over buying quality is that I buy Toyota's that are phyiscally made in the US or Canada. The US car company management and unions have destroyed any semblance of quality in an American car and I won't pay for junk. I work too hard for my money.
lowfog01
 
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Re: GM - Possibly lost chance at Reorganization

PostBy: stovepipemike On: Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:58 pm

My Little Chevy Story:When I got married and had a couple kids it was time for a station wagon.The year was 1969 and I bought my first brand new car.It was a forrest green Chevelle Concours station wagon with a V8 engine and a saddle leatherette interior. Religiously changed oil and cared for my "other baby". In 1972 I had been held over at work due to emergencys.It was about 4:30 a.m. when I started home after almost 24 straight hours.When I crossed the Blair Mill Rd. intersection [that had a little dip to it],I saw a red warning light wink.Could not tell which one because it was out that fast. Since I was permitted 8 hrs rest before returning to work I got up early to look the car over before using it.To my shock it was 3 1/2 quarts low on oil.The engine had 29,000 miles at this time.I looked hard for a leak,none found. You could see the dipstick level drop a smidge just back and forth to work now,about 22 miles. Still under 50K engine warranty from G.M. Took it back,they could find no problem.Spoke to the agency owner,they agreed to keep it and he drove it back and forth for one week.When I went to get it back they had the divisional service manager there.He said it is using extreme amounts of oil due to my abusive treatment of the engine.He accused me of taking it to the dragstrip and said he could prove abuse.He drug his fingernail on the inside of the rockerarm cover hoping to show me a big glob of sludge,but only found clean oil there.He then said he was going to have the engine torn down and I was liable for the time and materials when he found signs of abuse.I said to do it. He refused to do it and said take them to court they were not going to have another thing to do with my engine. I thought what is a young fellow with a mortgage,wife and a couple of kids going to do to fight G.M.?I bought a new Ford then and there.Since then it has been Fords mostly,American Motors,Chrysler Corp,and then VW. Neither of my kids has ever bought GM products,nor will they. General Motors has been out of my life for 37 years already.I won't miss them if they go for good.In my letter to the President of the Corporation I said I was a young person and would not purchase a GM product for 50 years if this was not resolved.I never received a reply of any type. It makes me cook just thinking about this story because I later found out that they had a run of "soft blocks" and they knew it. Mike
stovepipemike
 
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