1977 VC Vigilant woodburner vs Gibraltar CFI fireplace inser

1977 VC Vigilant woodburner vs Gibraltar CFI fireplace inser

PostBy: dsteinel On: Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:13 am

I now have the VC woodburner in my living room and have used it for two years. I am now installing the Gibraltar in my family room fireplace and will burn anthracite in it. Which one has the potential to put our more heat?
dsteinel
 

Re: 1977 VC Vigilant woodburner vs Gibraltar CFI fireplace inser

PostBy: coal berner On: Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:09 pm

dsteinel wrote:I now have the VC woodburner in my living room and have used it for two years. I am now installing the Gibraltar in my family room fireplace and will burn anthracite in it. Which one has the potential to put our more heat?

Being that Anthracite coal has two to three times the btu's per lb then wood does My Money is on The Gibraltar coal stove ;)
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: 1977 VC Vigilant woodburner vs Gibraltar CFI fireplace inser

PostBy: Salemcoal On: Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:21 pm

I grew up feeding a VC Vigilant, nice little woodstove but no match for your CFI which I think holds at least 85lbs of coal according to the manual. This is like Ali vs. Wepner.
Salemcoal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: harmonsf150
Stove/Furnace Model: alaskachaning3

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Re: 1977 VC Vigilant woodburner vs Gibraltar CFI fireplace inser

PostBy: dsteinel On: Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:37 am

Here is what confuses me: I generally run my VC wooburner with a stovetop temp of 500 degrees. It does not have a built in fan, but I put a fan behind it and a lot of heat blows off into my house. When I read about coal stoves in this forum, people report their coal stoves' top temps run around 300 to 350. Even with built in fans, how can those stoves heat a room as well as my woodburner with such relatively low stove top temps?
dsteinel
 

Re: 1977 VC Vigilant woodburner vs Gibraltar CFI fireplace inser

PostBy: Pete69 On: Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:48 am

Stoves designed with blowers utilize a heat exchanger of some sort or another. The temps. inside the exchanger are generally hotter than stove top temps. The blower then washes that heat out of the exchanger and into the air.
Pete69
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Baker/Vermont Castings/Chubby
Stove/Furnace Model: fireside /VigilantII/Chubby

Re: 1977 VC Vigilant woodburner vs Gibraltar CFI fireplace inser

PostBy: Salemcoal On: Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:23 am

Many on this forum don't have to run their stoves very hot and the blowers wash heat into the room which lowers stove temps. My brother in law has a Vigilant also and while watching NFL playoffs there all day the process of having to keep throwing wood on started to cut into my beer drinking. With my Gibraltar its shake and load in the morning and then forget about it for at least 12 hours. On below zero days I burn it much hotter than 500 degrees but this stove loves to idle for long periods at 450. There are a few others on here with Gibraltars and I think they can tell you the temps they burn at. If you have problems with it pm me. Good luck
Salemcoal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: harmonsf150
Stove/Furnace Model: alaskachaning3

Re: 1977 VC Vigilant woodburner vs Gibraltar CFI fireplace inser

PostBy: stonyloam On: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:25 pm

That is kind of a loaded question. The wood stove should put out more heat FASTER, the coal more heat LONGER. if it is 40 out and you want heat fast= wood, if it is 4 out and you want to be warm all day= coal. The wood stove will come up to temperature faster and will almost certainly get hotter, but will have to be fed every couple of hours, the coal will come up more slowly but only has to be fed every 10 hours or so. If you are home all day and can tend the fire whenever it is needed it probably doesn't make a lot of difference because either will put out as much heat as you want, however if you are going to be out all day (at work or whatever) you can't stuff enough BTUs into the wood stove to last all day, with the coal you can. In that case the coal wins out hands down.
stonyloam
 
Stove/Furnace Make: vermont casting
Stove/Furnace Model: vigilant

Re: 1977 VC Vigilant woodburner vs Gibraltar CFI fireplace inser

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:44 pm

It's stove design that relates to stove top temperatures. As previously stated, stoves with an air wash over the top of the stove generally have two pieces of steel in the stove top design with forced air moving in between the space pushing heat out and off of the steel plate closest to the firebox. The VC Vigilant has a cast iron stove top opening directly into the firebox that serves as a radiant heater. No air wash, just radiant heat therefore the cast iron construction. Temps measured on the iron top in direct contact will measure higher than a steel-air-steel configuration measured on top.

The Gibraltar will K_A_ when it comes to total heat out put. It's a larger stove with higher BTU output and then there's the wood vs. coal cycle difference stated above. Even heat, long tending frequency = coal. I burned wood in a VC Defiant rated at 50K BTU and now a coal fired VC Vigilant rated 50k BTU. There's no question that I'd take the coal fired Vigilant over the wood fired Defiant. I go 12-18 hrs with coal vs. 6-8 with wood for the same amount of heat.
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: 1977 VC Vigilant woodburner vs Gibraltar CFI fireplace inser

PostBy: coal berner On: Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:09 pm

Or another way to explain the differents between a radiant heat stove Vs a fan stove is. The radint stove is a single wall
construction stove and a Fan blower stove is a double wall construction stove .It takes the heated air between the inside wall & outside wall and pushes it threw the top or side air vent on the stove. A Radint stove does not a any air vents
built into the stove or a second wall so the heat just radiates the heat off the stove. Now you can put a fan behind the stove to help push the air around but is must be a slow speed fan if the fan is a high speed fan it will take that hot air and turn it to cool air Not what you want . Stick with the Gibraltar it is a much better built stove.You can burn wood in it
to.There is also Natural Convection stoves which has air slots or holes on the bottom sides or back that takes the cooler air on the bottom by the floor and takes that cooler air inside stove wall and turns it to hot air. Two stoves that come to mind is The Gibraltar models LCC and the DDS stoves.The LCC works with either Natural Convection air or with a Fan .
The DSS works as a Radiant & Natural Convection or with a Fan .
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: 1977 VC Vigilant woodburner vs Gibraltar CFI fireplace inser

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:54 pm

Here's a little bit more to add about the raidiant VC Vigilant. It too is a double walled stove except for front and the vaulted top that traps the heat and gives more radiant surface area to complement the double-wall side's heat recovery/transfer. The fire box is a separate internal box separated by an air space from the external castings. When the internal damper is closed, the combustion gasses must wind thru the spaces between sides and back of the stove. This allows the heat in the gases to contact the external back and sides for a longer time, yielding greater heat transfer. It's not just up and out but around, down, up and out.

The thermostatic air inlet on some stoves like the VC and th Hitzer help regulate the combustion air flow/rate according to how hot the stove surface is. It opens and closes relative to the heat that's radiated/convected away to the room.

The answer to your original question is the Gibralter will give you more heat. It's a larger stove rated for a higher BTU/hour.
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: 1977 VC Vigilant woodburner vs Gibraltar CFI fireplace inser

PostBy: baldeagle On: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:25 am

dsteinel - On another thread about the Hitzer 503, a number of members were comparing stovetop temperatures.
As you mention 300 or so is the maximum with the fan assist ... But when running hard (70+ #/day) we will get
exit are temperatures in excess of stove top temperatures = 325F +. As to more total heat, go to the conversion
sites -- most members can burn 80 or more pounds of anthracite/day; just compare that to nominal btu for"wood".
Luck, baldeagle
baldeagle
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer 354
Stove/Furnace Model: Hitzer 503

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