Another Obama attack on the 2A

Re: Another Obama attack on the 2A

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:20 pm

rockwood wrote:
SuperBeetle wrote:
tvb wrote:
Get yourself a musket loader - no brass necessary.


A musket loader? Exactly what is a "musket loader" :?:

That's funny......well maybe not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blunderbuss
is it a cap and ball or percussion or black powder or muzzle loader or flintlock or ........ so many shoes to chose from :D
Poconoeagle
 
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Re: Another Obama attack on the 2A

PostBy: SuperBeetle On: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:30 pm

Poconoeagle wrote:
rockwood wrote:
tvb wrote:
Get yourself a musket loader - no brass necessary.


A musket loader? Exactly what is a "musket loader" :?:

That's funny......well maybe not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blunderbuss
is it a cap and ball or percussion or black powder or muzzle loader or flintlock or ........ so many shoes to chose from :D[/quote]

Yes there are many choices and also Breech Loading Muskets as well. Such as the .577 Snider and the Springfield Trapdoor Muskets that do indeed use a brass case.
SuperBeetle
 
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Re: Another Obama attack on the 2A

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:42 pm

tvb wrote:The 2nd amendment doesn't guarantee the right to govt subsidized ammo - only the right to bear arms.

Get yourself a musket - no brass necessary.


What socialist wonderland do you live in? Seriously. Have you no idea what the 2A is about? What happens in the very likely event that you are wrong and the government doesn't have your best interest in mind? Does Germany around 1939 ring a bell?
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Re: Another Obama attack on the 2A

PostBy: PC 12-47E On: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:44 pm

SuperBeetle wrote:
tvb wrote:
Get yourself a musket loader - no brass necessary.


A musket loader? Exactly what is a "musket loader" :?:


This went way over my muzzle and I am not loaded. :wine:

Winchester made thousands of "Muskets" that use brass cartridges from the 1870's to well past 1900.

Over 200,000 model 1895's went to Russia. :P :P
PC 12-47E
 
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Re: Another Obama attack on the 2A

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:45 pm

jpete wrote:
tvb wrote:The 2nd amendment doesn't guarantee the right to govt subsidized ammo - only the right to bear arms.

Get yourself a musket - no brass necessary.


What socialist wonderland do you live in? Seriously. Have you no idea what the 2A is about? What happens in the very likely event that you are wrong and the government doesn't have your best interest in mind? Does Germany around 1939 ring a bell?


ding ding ding ding!!!!!
Poconoeagle
 
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Re: Another Obama attack on the 2A

PostBy: tvb On: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:53 pm

Having the government subsidize private industry and the bullets they make doesn't smell of socialism? You're spinning like a top, Jeff.

What happened to the free market you are so fond of? Let the ammo makers figure it out on their own.
tvb
 
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Re: Another Obama attack on the 2A

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:57 pm

tvb wrote:Having the government subsidize private industry and the bullets they make doesn't smell of socialism? You're spinning like a top, Jeff.

What happened to the free market you are so fond of? Let the ammo makers figure it out on their own.


You mean the ones that Obama increased the costs on by mandating microstamping and registering? Why doesn't your boy Barry leave the free market alone?

Answer the question. What happens in the very likely event that the government doesn't have your best interest in mind? What happens if the trains start running on schedule again? Don't say it can't happen. It already has. What happens then?
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Re: Another Obama attack on the 2A

PostBy: SuperBeetle On: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:03 pm

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." - Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria, Criminologist in 1764. That was 230 years ago. -Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." -Thomas Jefferson

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."-Thomas Jefferson
SuperBeetle
 
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Re: Another Obama attack on the 2A

PostBy: tvb On: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:03 pm

Your question is a strawman, Jeff.

Besides, your best interest and mine probably are likely very dissimilar.

He's not taking your guns away. They simply are not going to subsidize private ammunition makers anymore. There is no right to subsidized ammunition just like you claim there is no right to healthcare.
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Re: Another Obama attack on the 2A

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:14 pm

tvb wrote:Your question is a strawman, Jeff.

Besides, your best interest and mine probably are likely very dissimilar.

He's not taking your guns away. They simply are not going to subsidize private ammunition makers anymore. There is no right to subsidized ammunition just like you claim there is no right to healthcare.


Fine. I'll give up the brass, that I already paid for with my tax dollars by the way, if you give up the health care that a large percentage of the population will force me to pay for.

How is my question a strawman?

The straw man fallacy occurs in the following pattern:

1. Person A has position X.

2. Person B ignores X and instead presents position Y.
Y is a distorted version of X and can be set up in several ways, including:

1. Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent's position and then refuting it, thus giving the appearance that the opponent's actual position has been refuted.[1]
2. Quoting an opponent's words out of context — i.e. choosing quotations which are intentionally misrepresentative of the opponent's actual intentions (see contextomy and quote mining).[2]
3. Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then refuting that person's arguments - thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position (and thus the position itself) has been defeated.[1]
4. Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.
5. Oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking this oversimplified version.

3. Person B attacks position Y, concluding that X is false/incorrect/flawed.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious, because attacking a distorted version of a position fails to constitute an attack on the actual position.


I'm asking you how will you defend yourself from a hostile government as the writers of the Constitution intended and expected?

I though I was being fairly strait forward.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure. -Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Another Obama attack on the 2A

PostBy: tvb On: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:23 pm

There's no indication of a hostile government within our borders. There's no indication there will be one in our lifetime. Absolutely things can change but you may also be hit by a bus tomorrow so should we ban all buses on the off-chance it may happen?

i haven't seen any indication that ammunition is going to be banned, nor is Obama coming for your guns except in your imagination.

As far as the faulty argument that it belongs to the taxpayer, that's baloney. Private ammunition makers (and by extension, you) are no more entitled to brass cast-offs than I am entitled to take a ride a ride on the space shuttle.
tvb
 
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Re: Another Obama attack on the 2A

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:33 pm

tvb wrote:i haven't seen any indication that ammunition is going to be banned, nor is Obama coming for your guns except in your imagination.


No, it's your imagination that he ISN'T attacking the 2A. I've provided more than enough proof. Eric Holder has a history of being against the 2A going back to the Clinton administration. That enough should signal what Obama's intentions are. You just choose not to see it.
jpete
 
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Re: Another Obama attack on the 2A

PostBy: brckwlt On: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:34 pm

Devil505 wrote:If you guys are worried that, during or by the end of the Obama administration, you guns will be taken away or there will not be plenty of ammo for you to buy .........I have a few very nice bridges to sell you. :up: :devil:

(but hurry!!.....They/'re going fast!!!) :P



this is no joke devil, obama wants to take every right and privilege we have as American citizens away from us
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Re: Another Obama attack on the 2A

PostBy: brckwlt On: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:38 pm

Devil505 wrote:
Tell ya what....I'd much rather pay a bit more for ammo but be able to afford to fill my car with gasoline or have people be able to heat their homes. (I'll just have to cut down on the number of people I shoot each month!) :lol:


Obama is on record of saying that when gas was around 4 dollars a gallon the he didn't mind that gas was so expensive he just wished it would took longer to get to 4 dollars a gallon. High gas prices benefit him and his liberal environmental wackos. then they can force their green bs on us and alternative energy. do you think Obama cares what u pay for gas when he gets it for free?

If you haven't noticed many people already cant heat their homes and with cap and trade coming that number will only grow. Remember when you tax big business like our oil company's and natural gas company they pass that tax on to you and i the faithful consumer.
brckwlt
 
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Re: Another Obama attack on the 2A

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:54 pm

The spent casings were sold to a market just as thousands of other items of government surplus find their way to auction.

I would imagine the mutilated brass would fetch a lower market price as simply bulk scrap metal.

Additional cost/labor/energy will be consumed rendering the casings non functional and additional cost/labor/energy will be consumed smelting the brass and redrawing the metal to form what was initially a perfectly good recyclable item.

It's a political move and it's non-sensible.
Black_And_Blue
 
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