It's the Democrats, DON'T blame GWB !!

Re: It's the Democrats, DON'T blame GWB !!

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:08 pm

Wood'nCoal wrote:
It kind of bothers me to see you all so upset and at eachothers throats like this.


Well--it's like this....there are those of us here who are correct and those of us who need to realize that they are wrong, Once the wrong ones see the light and start to think like us (the ones who are correct about the way this country should be run) then everything will be just fine!

I won't mention any names. :evil: :twisted: :devil: :evil: :devil: :twisted:

Seriously, we are all here because of King Coal. In fifty years this will be history, petty squabbles will be forgotten. Wonder how it's going to turn out?


Our problems stem from people who willingly and obediently allow or choose to use Government power to inflict damage upon their neighbor.
Black_And_Blue
 
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Re: It's the Democrats, DON'T blame GWB !!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:17 pm

Black_And_Blue wrote:Our problems stem from people who willingly and obediently allow or choose to use Government power to inflict damage upon their neighbor.


Agreed..So all those people who had no problems with the USA Patriot Act & allowed illegal warrant less spying on their neighbors are to blame.
Devil505
 
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Re: It's the Democrats, DON'T blame GWB !!

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:28 pm

Devil505 wrote:
Black_And_Blue wrote:Our problems stem from people who willingly and obediently allow or choose to use Government power to inflict damage upon their neighbor.


Agreed..So all those people who had no problems with the USA Patriot Act & allowed illegal warrant less spying on their neighbors are to blame.


You do realize the internet was designed by the military, don't you? Go look up ARPANET.

I'm not feeling oppressed speaking to you through this keyboard, are you?
Black_And_Blue
 
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Re: It's the Democrats, DON'T blame GWB !!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:39 pm

Black_And_Blue wrote:I'm not feeling oppressed speaking to you through this keyboard, are you?


If your argument is that a police state is more effective at finding enemies than a free one, I will not argue. Personaly, I want to live in a free country, you make your own choices.
Last edited by Devil505 on Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It's the Democrats, DON'T blame GWB !!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:42 pm

Black_And_Blue wrote:I'm not feeling oppressed speaking to you through this keyboard, are you?


I think therein lies the problem. If your government can spy on you for no reason then you should feel oppressed. The fact that you don't merely discloses ignorance of the threat to you, not informed acquiescence. :secret:
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Re: It's the Democrats, DON'T blame GWB !!

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:49 pm

A purely free State without morals will embark upon anarchy.

Common sense should rule the day, sadly, it is a rare commodity.
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Re: It's the Democrats, DON'T blame GWB !!

PostBy: Paulie On: Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:00 pm

Black_And_Blue wrote:A purely free State without morals will embark upon anarchy.

Common sense should rule the day, sadly, it is a rare commodity.

Common sense is a misnomer, as we all know, sense is not common any more. 8-)
Paulie
 
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Re: It's the Democrats, DON'T blame GWB !!

PostBy: rockwood On: Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:18 pm

Black_And_Blue wrote:A purely free State without morals will embark upon anarchy.

You got it. So simple.
To bad it is so difficult for so many to understand.
rockwood
 
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Re: It's the Democrats, DON'T blame GWB !!

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:28 pm

Devil505 wrote:Most of the "R"'s have been deleted i see....That list form Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity? (I get them confused other than the DEA wanted poster pics of Rush Limbaugh)


wishful thinking on your part...

http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neig ... rch=Search

Here's another...I really wish you would do your homework...

http://www.campaignmoney.com/advanced.a ... =&orderby=

Notice the R donation on the list.....it was returned ! Too smelly for the R.
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Re: It's the Democrats, DON'T blame GWB !!

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:45 pm

Devil505 wrote:Agreed..So all those people who had no problems with the USA Patriot Act & allowed illegal warrant less spying on their neighbors are to blame.


Devil, stop the bull with regard to the USA Patriot Act. Only 65 out of 210 democrats in the house were against the patriot act. Only 1 of 49 dems in the senate. The senate and house were nearly evenly represented at the time by d's and r's. In other words, It passed by overwhelming majorities in both houses and the explicit approval of the democrats.
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Re: It's the Democrats, DON'T blame GWB !!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:01 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:Devil, stop the bull with regard to the USA Patriot Act. Only 65 out of 210 democrats in the house were against the patriot act. Only 1 of 49 dems in the senate. The senate and house were nearly evenly represented at the time by d's and r's. In other words, It passed by overwhelming majorities in both houses and the explicit approval of the democrats.


In large part because much of the act was kept secret & lied about. There are parts of the USA Patriot Act that have already been rescinded with more to follow. Additionally, just because many Congressmen voted for it out of fear of losing votes does not bring much glory to either side of the aisle.It was a sad & inglorious day for the USA when that was passed, just like the incarceration of Japanese American citizens during WWII (lout of fear) was also a dark day in U.S. history which I have no doubt you probably still defend.
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Re: It's the Democrats, DON'T blame GWB !!

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:15 pm

Don't bother to try to argue with facts with Dev.. He sees things his way and refuses to see anything else..

and he loves to put out his infamous one-liners from the Liberal playbook.. Facts, common sense, reality, written or video'd history mean NOTHING to Dev..

. Just read the original post on this topic.. pure facts from the history books, the congressional record and indisputable fsources.. But they mean nothing.. because they don't agree with his viewpoint.

Greg L
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Re: It's the Democrats, DON'T blame GWB !!

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:18 pm

He sees things his way and refuses to see anything else..


The saddest comment of all.....
Wood'nCoal
 
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Re: It's the Democrats, DON'T blame GWB !!

PostBy: stockingfull On: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:28 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:
Devil505 wrote:Agreed..So all those people who had no problems with the USA Patriot Act & allowed illegal warrant less spying on their neighbors are to blame.


Devil, stop the bull with regard to the USA Patriot Act. Only 65 out of 210 democrats in the house were against the patriot act. Only 1 of 49 dems in the senate. The senate and house were nearly evenly represented at the time by d's and r's. In other words, It passed by overwhelming majorities in both houses and the explicit approval of the democrats.

This is complete nonsense, Mike. It was a bald political power play by the Bush Administration.

How do I know? From an unrepentant insider. I heard Viet Dinh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viet_D._Dinh) speak at a bar association luncheon back in 2003 or 2004 about the genesis of the USA Patriot Act. He was at the epicenter of its drafting and passage and here's what he said happened:

Right after 9/11, the word was put out at DOJ for everybody there to open that drawer in their desk where they kept their wish list of all the enforcement devices they ever dreamed they'd like to have, and send them to somebody's secretary, where they would be collected and catalogued. Essentially, that aggregate list ultimately became the outline of the USA Patriot Act. When Democrats proposed amendments to it, Republican leadership refused to agree and forced an "up-or-down," "take-it-or-leave-it" vote on the whole package, threatening to run against any member voting against it in the 2002 elections as weak on terrorism.

When the USA Patriot Act came up for that "take-it-or-leave-it" vote about 6 weeks after 9/11, it passed overwhelmingly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act You can make up your own reasons why. :roll:

Talk about not letting a good crisis go to waste!

Now, let me suggest an exercise for all you wannabe constitutional lawyers out there: take the wiki description of the USA Patriot Act, read about the broad range of invasions of our privacy it authorized in the names of "protection" and "safety," and then substitute encroachments on your 2nd Amendment rights for those on our 4th Amendment rights.

Then see how you like it.

Bottom line? Modulating the individual freedoms in our form of gov't ain't easy, but my 4th Amendment rights are no less important than your 2nd A. rights.
stockingfull
 
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Re: It's the Democrats, DON'T blame GWB !!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:08 am

LsFarm wrote:Don't bother to try to argue with facts with Dev.. He sees things his way and refuses to see anything else..
LsFarm wrote:Just read the original post on this topic.. pure facts from the history books, the congressional record and indisputable fsources.. But they mean nothing.. because they don't agree with his viewpoint.



I choose to debate rather than to just reprint articles from the web as I feel that a discussion is more direct & doesn't require the other side to wade through volumes of info to make my point. If you want reading material to refute your basic charge in this thread, I have suppluied just one article that goes to the heart of my argument, is also from the congressional record and indisputable sources......To wit: 35 direct refutations of your thesis filed (formally) in the U.S. Congress. These 35 articles of impeachment provide merely a framework for my argument, but one I would be happy to provide detailed......charge by charge web info on, should you desire it.
Let me know if you want more to read......I have volumes!

The news that Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich (D-Ohio) introduced articles of impeachment against President Bush sparked a spirited debate here yesterday. It's pretty clear that history will judge George W. Bush as one of the worst presidents ever—if not the worst. But how will history remember Kucinich?

The full impeachment articles and their supporting documentation can be read here:

Dennis J. Kucinich of Ohio
In the United States House of Representatives
Monday, June 9th, 2008
A Resolution

Article I
Creating a Secret Propaganda Campaign to Manufacture a False Case for War Against Iraq.

Article II
Falsely, Systematically, and with Criminal Intent Conflating the Attacks of September 11, 2001, With Misrepresentation of Iraq as a Security Threat as Part of Fraudulent Justification for a War of Aggression.

Article III
Misleading the American People and Members of Congress to Believe Iraq Possessed Weapons of Mass Destruction, to Manufacture a False Case for War.

Article IV
Misleading the American People and Members of Congress to Believe Iraq Posed an Imminent Threat to the United States.

Article V
Illegally Misspending Funds to Secretly Begin a War of Aggression.

Article VI
Invading Iraq in Violation of the Requirements of HJRes114.

Article VII
Invading Iraq Absent a Declaration of War.

Article VIII
Invading Iraq, A Sovereign Nation, in Violation of the UN Charter.

Article IX
Failing to Provide Troops With Body Armor and Vehicle Armor

Article X
Falsifying Accounts of US Troop Deaths and Injuries for Political Purposes

Article XI
Establishment of Permanent U.S. Military Bases in Iraq

Article XII
Initiating a War Against Iraq for Control of That Nation's Natural Resources

Article XIIII
Creating a Secret Task Force to Develop Energy and Military Policies With Respect to Iraq and Other
Countries

Article XIV
Misprision of a Felony, Misuse and Exposure of Classified Information And Obstruction of Justice in the Matter of Valerie Plame Wilson, Clandestine Agent of the Central Intelligence Agency

Article XV
Providing Immunity from Prosecution for Criminal Contractors in Iraq

Article XVI
Reckless Misspending and Waste of U.S. Tax Dollars in Connection With Iraq and US Contractors

Article XVII
Illegal Detention: Detaining Indefinitely And Without Charge Persons Both U.S. Citizens and Foreign Captives

Article XVIII
Torture: Secretly Authorizing, and Encouraging the Use of Torture Against Captives in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Other Places, as a Matter of Official Policy

Article XIX
Rendition: Kidnapping People and Taking Them Against Their Will to "Black Sites" Located in Other Nations, Including Nations Known to Practice Torture

Article XX
Imprisoning Children

Article XXI
Misleading Congress and the American People About Threats from Iran, and Supporting Terrorist Organizations Within Iran, With the Goal of Overthrowing the Iranian Government

Article XXII
Creating Secret Laws

Article XXIII
Violation of the Posse Comitatus Act

Article XXIV
Spying on American Citizens, Without a Court-Ordered Warrant, in Violation of the Law and the Fourth Amendment

Article XXV
Directing Telecommunications Companies to Create an Illegal and Unconstitutional Database of the Private Telephone Numbers and Emails of American Citizens

Article XXVI
Announcing the Intent to Violate Laws with Signing Statements

Article XXVII
Failing to Comply with Congressional Subpoenas and Instructing Former Employees Not to Comply

Article XXVIII
Tampering with Free and Fair Elections, Corruption of the Administration of Justice

Article XXIX
Conspiracy to Violate the Voting Rights Act of 1965

Article XXX
Misleading Congress and the American People in an Attempt to Destroy Medicare

Article XXXI
Katrina: Failure to Plan for the Predicted Disaster of Hurricane Katrina, Failure to Respond to a Civil Emergency

Article XXXII
Misleading Congress and the American People, Systematically Undermining Efforts to Address Global Climate Change

Article XXXIII
Repeatedly Ignored and Failed to Respond to High Level Intelligence Warnings of Planned Terrorist Attacks in the US, Prior to 911.

Article XXXIV
Obstruction of the Investigation into the Attacks of September 11, 2001

Article XXXV
Endangering the Health of 911 First Responders
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more: Impeachment

http://www.ask.com/bar?q=Dennis+kucinich+impeachment+articles&page=1&qsrc=0&ab=4&u=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.villagevoice.com%2Frunninscared%2Farchives%2F2008%2F06%2Fkucinich_impeac.php
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


Last edited by Devil505 on Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:41 am, edited 3 times in total.
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