Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:13 pm

BillMarti wrote:Figures you say that you devil you.

Bill S.
I gotta admit.....I like a man who keeps his sense of humor! (one point for you)
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: BillMarti On: Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:15 pm

I try to keep my temper at bay.

Bill S.
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:20 pm

BillMarti wrote:I try to keep my temper at bay.

Bill S.



War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
Winston Churchill
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:26 pm

I'll try to pick the high points, I don't want to blow anyone's minds with economics in an economics thread.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 5000541773

Since these derivatives were so weird, if you wanted to count them as part of your reserves, regulators demanded that you buy insurance against the derivatives defaulting. And everyone did. The "default insurance" was in the form of credit default swaps (CDSs), often from AIG's now infamous Financial Products unit.


Explaining derivatives is a whole different thread. But notice the bolded part. You know those regulators that Devil claims didn't exist? Well it seems that they REQUIRED companies to purchase the very instruments that led to their destruction.

Bill Clinton in his "Commodity Futures Modernization Act" excluded regulation of CDS's and CDO's. Which caused the head of GE to say this.

General Electric CEO Jeff Immelt famously complained that "by spending 25 million bucks in a handful of transactions in an unregulated market" traders in credit default swaps could tank major companies. "I just don't think we should treat credit default swaps as like the Delphic Oracle of any kind," he continued. "It's the most easily manipulated and broadly manipulated market that there is."


Well guess what happened? Someone tanked a bunch of major companies.

And so here is my beef with the current policy:

Oddly, with the new Treasury plan, these same bear raiders are still incentivized to manipulate the price of swaps to depress toxic derivative prices, especially so with the government's help to get hedge funds to turn around and buy them. Perversely, they may get rewarded for their own shenanigans.


So, these are the facts. Anyone care to prove me wrong?
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:00 pm

jpete wrote:I'll try to pick the high points, I don't want to blow anyone's minds with economics in an economics thread.


No....Since you disagree with it so vehemently, Let's take the actual Obama economic plan & dissect it in order:

Tell us all where you disagree with it:

The Problem
Wages are Stagnant as Prices Rise: While wages remain flat, the costs of basic necessities are increasing. The cost of in-state college tuition has grown 35 percent over the past five years. Health care costs have risen four times faster than wages over the past six years. And the personal savings rate is now the lowest it's been since the Great Depression.

Tax Cuts for Wealthy Instead of Middle Class: The Bush tax cuts give those who earn over $1 million dollars a tax cut nearly 160 times greater than that received by middle-income Americans. At the same time, this administration has refused to tackle health care, education and housing in a manner that benefits the middle class.



Any problems so far?
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:06 pm

Devil505 wrote:
jpete wrote:I'll try to pick the high points, I don't want to blow anyone's minds with economics in an economics thread.


No....Let's take the actual Obama plan & dissect it in order:

Tell us all where you disagree with it:

The Problem
Wages are Stagnant as Prices Rise: While wages remain flat, the costs of basic necessities are increasing. The cost of in-state college tuition has grown 35 percent over the past five years. Health care costs have risen four times faster than wages over the past six years. And the personal savings rate is now the lowest it's been since the Great Depression.

Tax Cuts for Wealthy Instead of Middle Class: The Bush tax cuts give those who earn over $1 million dollars a tax cut nearly 160 times greater than that received by middle-income Americans. At the same time, this administration has refused to tackle health care, education and housing in a manner that benefits the middle class.



Any problems so far?


Several.
You haven't refuted my earlier post about the causes of inflation.

Health care costs we've gone over in previous threads

Personal savings rates have different reasons which we can get into if you'd like.

I'm in favor of tax cuts for everyone.

And I don't think the administration SHOULD tackle health care, education or housing. For ANYONE.
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:20 pm

jpete wrote:Several.
You haven't refuted my earlier post about the causes of inflation.


In do time......Remember...You're the one whose expert economic opinion is that President Obama's plan is all wrong, so lets take things in order.


jpete wrote:Health care costs we've gone over in previous threads

That's a dodge! What were YOUR views about them?

jpete wrote:Personal savings rates have different reasons which we can get into if you'd like.

I'm all ears!

jpete wrote:I'm in favor of tax cuts for everyone.

That's the Republican mantra that was rejected in favor of B. Obama's plan. (explained adnauseum by McCain & rejected by a majority of us)

jpete wrote:And I don't think the administration SHOULD tackle health care, education or housing. For ANYONE.

Again...The majority of voters disagree with you & want it....so you were outvoted! (as much as you'd like to, you have no authority to force YOUR unpopular views on the rest of us.....The election is over & the question is what specific things won't work in the plan we are dissecting. So far I have just heard already rejected campaign rhetoric....No economic expertise against this plan?
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:48 pm

There you go again insisting that 53% of 60% equals a majority.

If you want to get back into my health care views, let's go back to the health care thread. On topic and all......

And are you really trying to tell me that the American public, the same people you just spent the last 8 years ripping on because they voted for Bush twice is now somehow qualified to make a decision about an economic policy that you yourself don't understand?

Most Americans are functional idiots. They can't name the current vice president. Don't expect me to defer to their "intelligence" when it comes to Austrian vs Keynesian economics.
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:12 pm

jpete wrote:There you go again insisting that 53% of 60% equals a majority.

If you want to get back into my health care views, let's go back to the health care thread. On topic and all......

And are you really trying to tell me that the American public, the same people you just spent the last 8 years ripping on because they voted for Bush twice is now somehow qualified to make a decision about an economic policy that you yourself don't understand?

Most Americans are functional idiots. They can't name the current vice president. Don't expect me to defer to their "intelligence" when it comes to Austrian vs Keynesian economics.




I haven't heard ONE economic theory of yours backing up a single thing you disagree with on Obama's plan.
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:16 pm

Devil505 wrote:
jpete wrote:There you go again insisting that 53% of 60% equals a majority.

If you want to get back into my health care views, let's go back to the health care thread. On topic and all......

And are you really trying to tell me that the American public, the same people you just spent the last 8 years ripping on because they voted for Bush twice is now somehow qualified to make a decision about an economic policy that you yourself don't understand?

Most Americans are functional idiots. They can't name the current vice president. Don't expect me to defer to their "intelligence" when it comes to Austrian vs Keynesian economics.




I haven't heard ONE economic theory of yours backing up a single thing you disagree with on Obama's plan.


Because you don't understand what I'm saying and you don't have the motivation to find out.
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:21 pm

jpete wrote:Because you don't understand what I'm saying and you don't have the motivation to find out.


I understood


Ask Obama


We talked about it in another thread

Let's cut taxes



Those aren't real deep ya know! ;)
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:23 pm

Devil505 wrote:
jpete wrote:Because you don't understand what I'm saying and you don't have the motivation to find out.


I understood


Ask Obama


We talked about it in another thread

Let's cut taxes



Those aren't real deep ya know! ;)


Well if you understand it, then tell me what I said about credit default swaps and how the elimination of the uptick rule effected a short sellers ability to drive a company into the ground. I'll be waiting......
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:36 pm

jpete wrote:Well if you understand it, then tell me what I said about credit default swaps and how the elimination of the uptick rule effected a short sellers ability to drive a company into the ground. I'll be waiting......


Uh Uh :nono: :no1:

We haven't even really started to dissect the Obama economic plan that you disagree with so violently but won't share a single item that you find distasteful & will ruin this country.

Let's start again: Tell us specifically what you disagree with:


The Problem
Wages are Stagnant as Prices Rise: While wages remain flat, the costs of basic necessities are increasing. The cost of in-state college tuition has grown 35 percent over the past five years. Health care costs have risen four times faster than wages over the past six years. And the personal savings rate is now the lowest it's been since the Great Depression.

Tax Cuts for Wealthy Instead of Middle Class: The Bush tax cuts give those who earn over $1 million dollars a tax cut nearly 160 times greater than that received by middle-income Americans. At the same time, this administration has refused to tackle health care, education and housing in a manner that benefits the middle class.
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:39 pm

Devil505 wrote:Let's start again: Tell us specifically what you disagree with:.


Scroll up Devil. If you are too lazy to do so, it's not my fault.
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: titleist1 On: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:14 am

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Last edited by titleist1 on Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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