Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: spc On: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:16 pm

Devil505 wrote:I trust President Obama's words.




But remember, its only been "TWO MONTHS!!" :shock:
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:44 pm

jpete wrote:Hey Devil, you know what you call a person who graduates LAST in medical school?
DOCTOR :shock:


Here's one for you: What do you call a person who graduates fifth from the bottom of his class at Annapolis? The Republican Party nominee for President. That's right. Senator John McCain actually graduated 894th out of 899 middies at the Naval Academy. Only five other crew cuts achieved less than John McCain did in his class at Annapolis.




jpete wrote:Don't try to impress me with Geithner credentials. I know where he came from. You realize you are putting your faith in a man who worked alongside Henry Paulson. The same man who used to work at Goldman Sachs. One of those big evil companies you hate so much.


jpete wrote:I graduated from the School of Hard Knocks and got my Phd from the College of Getting the $h!t Kicked Out of Me.


After carefully comparing the two resumes Jeff....I'm afraid we'll just have to pass you up ....this time....but.....Thanks for applying!





jpete wrote:Also, he was brought up by Henry Kissinger. The architect of the Vietnam War.


Wrong......Sec of Defense Robert McNamara fits that title more appropriately & should go down as one of the worst villains in U.S. history. Kissinger had very little role by comparison.

jpete wrote:This guy associates with the scum of the Earth and you want to trust the future of the country to him?

I never heard he was a family friend of the Bush's or Cheney's! :mad:

jpete wrote:You may be deaf. dumb, and blind, but I'm not.

I never accused you of being blind or deaf. :P :lol:

jpete wrote:But back to the issue. Do you, or do you not, know the difference between Austrian and Keynesian economics?

How many times do I have to tell you....... I don't hold myself out as an economist.
Can you tell me what the IRS form number is for a Notice of Levy? (668A)
IRS Summons?..(1039)
Corporate Income Tax Return? (1120)
IRS Calling Card? (2246)
Cannabis Sativa L scientific definition?
Federal travel Voucher (1012)
Police Radio Call number 10-8? (on the air)
10-20? (location?)


We each have our areas of expertise....& economics is not mine....or yours! :P
Last edited by Devil505 on Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:08 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:49 pm

Devil505 wrote:We each have our areas of expertise....& economics is not mine....or yours! :P


I didn't ask for expertise. I asked you a simple question. You wonder why you get disrespected here as you act like a 2 year old.

Dr. Kevorkian is to medicine what Geithner is to economics.

But you keep being flippant Devil. You claim to be trying to put out the fire but all I see you doing is fiddling while the theater burns.

Sad that a person would purposely go out of their way to be ignorant.
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: tvb On: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:57 pm

Jeff, I asked earlier this evening (Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!) what Ron Paul or Bob Barr are suggesting as possible solutions to the economic mess the previous administration left this nation in. You haven't answered - does that mean you are being intentionally ignorant?

I also asked what your solutions are and you didn't answer that either. Are you being intentionally obtuse? Or just flippant?
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:02 pm

jpete wrote:Sad that a person would purposely go out of their way to be ignorant.


Ignorant because I put more faith in Tim Geithner & President Obama than I do in YOU???

jpete wrote:You wonder why you get disrespected here as you act like a 2 year old.

jpete wrote:But you keep being flippant Devil.


Seems to me that I am not doing the childish name calling here Jeff, you are. As far as disrespect is concerned, go back a year ago, look at some political treads & see how many times I was called a Traitor to my country & worse!.......I have never tried to win the title of Miss Congeniality here Jeff, but I always call it as I see it in plain English.
I had always thought you & I were kibitzing a bit....but if I misread you & you really have a hair across your butt....Please feel free to speak your mind openly in Flame Central.
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:15 pm

tvb wrote:Jeff, I asked earlier this evening (Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!) what Ron Paul or Bob Barr are suggesting as possible solutions to the economic mess the previous administration left this nation in. You haven't answered - does that mean you are being intentionally ignorant?

I also asked what your solutions are and you didn't answer that either. Are you being intentionally obtuse? Or just flippant?


I believe, I've said on more than one occassion, to cut taxes and cut spending. Maybe I was on drugs when I said it but I'm pretty sure I did. As far as what RP would do, funny you should ask because I was just coming here to post it. And just so Devil can't question his credentials, Ron Paul studied economics at the Ludwig Von Mises Institute. As did a member of my Ron Paul group. The person that first introduced me to these ideas a few years ago. In fact, they studied WITH Ron Paul. And they have also been writing an investment newsletter for the past twenty years. But I am an admitted neophyte in economics, so I'll put MY faith in those who have decades more experience than I.

Bankruptcy is Economic Stimulus

The distraction on Capitol Hill this week has to do with the jackpot bonuses that executives at AIG recently received. The argument is over a relative drop in the bucket. The total amount of bonuses given out was $165 million. The government has put $170 billion into AIG so far. Many now are demanding we get this money back. We ought to be spending our time and effort doing something more worthwhile, like figuring out how the Federal Reserve is handling the trillions of dollars they are creating and pumping into the economy, and how that is affecting the purchasing power of dollars in your pocket.

The big mistake was appropriating the TARP funds in the first place. A Johnny-come-lately bill of attainder won’t stop the spending epidemic. This whole situation is a perfect demonstration of why “doing nothing” and letting failing companies fail would have been much better than sinking valuable money and resources into them.

When a company makes a profit, it is a signal that it is taking resources and increasing their value while controlling costs. When a company operates at a loss, it is a signal that it is decreasing the value of its resources or letting out-of-control costs outstrip any value it has created. A company operating at a loss is therefore an engine of wealth destruction. Bankruptcies are a net positive for the economy because more productive competitors are rewarded by opportunities to buy up remaining assets at bargain prices to strengthen their operations. In an economy that allows this kind of growth and change, any jobs lost by bankruptcy are soon replaced by new ones as the most efficiently managed businesses gain access to more assets and expand.

Bankruptcy was the stimulus that we needed in the case of AIG. More bankruptcies would clean out malinvested resources and enable economic growth again.

AIG, by losing money and maneuvering their operations to the brink of bankruptcy, was telling us that they were inefficient. So what did we do? We forced the taxpayer to assume the losses, and now we are supposed to be shocked that it is not working out. Had AIG gone bankrupt, it would have been impossible to hand out these bonuses. The taxpayer would have been fleeced for $170 billion less last year. Had they gone bankrupt, the world would not have come to an end, it would just continue on with one less engine of wealth destruction.

We should have learned from Japan. The 1990’s is referred to as Japan’s “lost decade” because of the zombie banks kept on life support by the Japanese government. Any productivity was redirected through these engines of wealth destruction, resulting in long term stagnation. We should and can avoid this outcome if we come to our senses.

A recession should be a time of strengthening and regrouping for an economy. But as long as the government insists on maintaining the status quo by propping up failed institutions, we will continue to dig a bigger hole for ourselves.
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:22 pm

Devil505 wrote:Seems to me that I am not doing the childish name calling here Jeff, you are. As far as disrespect is concerned, go back a year ago, look at some political treads & see how many times I was called a Traitor to my country & worse!.......I have never tried to win the title of Miss Congeniality here Jeff, but I always call it as I see it in plain English.
I had always thought you & I were kibitzing a bit....but if I misread you & you really have a hair across your butt....Please feel free to speak your mind openly in Flame Central.


Yeah I do have a problem Devil. I can't count how many times I asked you a simple question and you obfuscate. I ask you the time and you tell me how to make a watch. I want to know if you know the difference between Austrian and Keynesian economics. If you were an honest and interested person, you'd find out. But you're not. You'd rather make silly faces, stick your thumbs in your ears, and stick out your tongue and say "Nyah, nyah, nyah. We won! You didn't!"

It's pointless to "kibitz" with you if you aren't going to step up your game. I have been educated by many people over the years. My interest has led me to varied sources from the web to the book store. I have cross referenced the things I learned with different sources and determined that they made sense and were "true" to the best of my knowledge. I reserve the right to change my stance based on new information.

But you'd rather cling to your faith in those "on high" and "hope" for some "change". I can't do that. I've never been able to do that. If you told me right now that at 8:22 pm in New England, it was dark outside, I'd look out a window. It's just the way I am.
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:22 pm

jpete wrote:I believe, I've said on more than one occassion, to cut taxes and cut spending.


I know this was directed to TVB but I'll just jump in here to say that ...that was the Republican Mantra that was soundly rejected by a majority of U.S. voters in both the Presidential & Congressional elections of last November. We heard you guys THEN.......Rejected your failed message & are rejecting you again!
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:24 pm

Devil505 wrote:
jpete wrote:I believe, I've said on more than one occassion, to cut taxes and cut spending.


I know this was directed to TVB but I'll just jump in here to say that ...that was the Republican Mantra that was soundly rejected by a majority of U.S. voters in both the Presidential & Congressional elections of last November. We heard you guys THEN.......Rejected your failed message & are rejecting you again!


You mean the voters that you spent the last eight years excoriating for being dumb enough to vote for GWB, twice!?!

So when the general public suddenly agrees with you, they are geniuses that would make Einstein look like a babe in the woods, is that it?
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:40 pm

jpete wrote:Yeah I do have a problem Devil. I can't count how many times I asked you a simple question and you obfuscate. I ask you the time and you tell me how to make a watch.


Debate is like a chess game Jeff.......We each have a strategy & tactics which cannot be dictated by our opponents.If you don't like the way you opponent smirks or the color of his shirt....you can choose not to play. I have my own techniques for games (like chess, hearts & debate) & for real life....... I play by the rules of whatever the game is..... but I always play to win.
You are whining that you don't like my tactics, but that means nothing to me. I like my tactics...which is often to anger & unnerve my opponent & force them into making a mistake. (hey.......that;'s why I'm the :devil: :devil: )
I was never very good at playing the "Good Cop" when interrogating prisoners.....I always fell very naturally into the "Bad Cop" role! ;)

jpete wrote:I want to know if you know the difference between Austrian and Keynesian economics. If you were an honest and interested person, you'd find out.

I told you a thousand time I dont & I don't NEED to know. We elect Presidents who we HOPE know more than us in the hopes that THEY will make decisions which are normally beyond our capability to make. I consider myself I fairly intelligent & well informed citizen but I know my limitations......& advanced economics is NOT my strong suit nor do I believe it is yours.
Think of what your are demanding here Jeff.......You are demanding that I accept your opinion over that of some of the best economic minds in the world!....Listen to yourself....Are you really serious?!?!
Last edited by Devil505 on Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:42 pm

jpete wrote:You mean the voters that you spent the last eight years excoriating for being dumb enough to vote for GWB, twice!?!


Once....They voted for Gore once & Bush ONCE!
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: BillMarti On: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:50 pm

jpete,

He lead you down the path off your subject to what he does best. I won you lost and then he'll stick his tongue out at you.

I stopped myself before he got that satisfaction he got me once he won't do it again. Let it go nothing you say will do any good.

You can't teach a closed minded person anything because their like an 18 year old a know it all.


Bill S.
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: tvb On: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:55 pm

BillMarti wrote:jpete,

He lead you down the path off your subject to what he does best. I won you lost and then he'll stick his tongue out at you.

I stopped myself before he got that satisfaction he got me once he won't do it again. Let it go nothing you say will do any good.

You can't teach a closed minded person anything because their like an 18 year old a know it all.


Bill S.


I thought you took your ball and went home?
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: titleist1 On: Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:03 pm

Devil505 wrote:I disagree & think the CHANGE we voted for (from the Bush policies) has already largely occurred from the announcing of GITMO closing to refunding of science & stem cell research, to renouncing state sponsored torture to reintroduction of diplomacy to proper government oversight to...........There has already been a vast CHANGE for the better, imo! :up:


Sorry, I thought this thread you started was about the economy and its supposed "change" and "improvement".

Devil505 wrote:You'll excuse me but I would rather trust someone with credentials like this:


Sec of the Treasury Geithner

Geithner was born in Brooklyn, New York.[2] He spent most of his childhood living outside the United States, including present-day Zimbabwe, India and Thailand, where he completed high school at International School Bangkok.[3] He then attended Dartmouth College, graduating with an B.A. in government and Asian studies in 1983.[4] He earned an M.A. in international economics and East Asian studies from Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies in 1985.[4][5] He has studied Chinese[4] and Japanese.[6]
Geithner's paternal grandfather, Paul Herman Geithner (1902–1972), emigrated with his parents from the German town of Zeulenroda to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in 1908.[7] His father, Peter F. Geithner, is the director of the Asia program at the Ford Foundation in New York. During the early 1980s, Peter Geithner oversaw the Ford Foundation's microfinance programs in Indonesia being developed by Ann Dunham-Soetoro, President Barack Obama's mother, and they met in person at least once.[8] Timothy Geithner's mother, Deborah Moore Geithner, is a pianist and piano teacher in Larchmont, New York where his parents currently reside. Geithner's maternal grandfather, Charles F. Moore, was an adviser to President Dwight D. Eisenhower and served as a vice president of Ford Motor Company.[9]
[edit] Early career
After completing his studies, Geithner worked for Kissinger and Associates in Washington, D.C., for three years and then joined the International Affairs division of the U.S. Treasury Department in 1988. He went on to serve as an attache at the US Embassy in Tokyo. He was deputy assistant secretary for international monetary and financial policy (1995–1996), senior deputy assistant secretary for international affairs (1996-1997), assistant secretary for international affairs (1997–1998).[5]
He was Under Secretary of the Treasury for International Affairs (1998–2001) under Treasury Secretaries Robert Rubin and Lawrence Summers.[5] Summers was his mentor,[10][11] but other sources call him a Rubin protégé.[11][12][13]


Treasury Secretary designee Geithner meets Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus on November 25, 2008
In 2002 he left the Treasury to join the Council on Foreign Relations as a Senior Fellow in the International Economics department.[14] He was director of the Policy Development and Review Department (2001-2003) at the International Monetary Fund.[5]
In October 2003, he was named president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.[15] His salary in 2007 was $398,200.[16] Once at the New York Fed, he became Vice Chairman of the Federal Open Market Committee component. In 2006, he also became a member of the Washington-based financial advisory body, the Group of Thirty.[17]
In March 2008, he arranged the rescue and sale of Bear Stearns;[10][18] in the same year, he played a pivotal role in both the decision to bail out AIG as well as the government decision not to save Lehman Brothers from bankruptcy.[citation needed] As a Treasury official, he helped manage multiple international crises of the 1990s[12] in Brazil, Mexico, Indonesia, South Korea and Thailand.[13]
Geithner believes, along with Henry Paulson, that the United States Department of the Treasury needs new authority to experiment with responses to the financial crisis of 2008.[10] Paulson has described Geithner as "[a] very unusually talented young man...[who] understands government and understands markets."[18]


Yawn.....Very Impressive......You're excused......now are you going with the story that he was too stupid to fill out his own taxes using a software program, Or was he just a plain old criminal lying on a federal tax form that has his signature? Think carefully before you answer, this is the genius who you say has your trust. Was his "pivotal role" in bailing out AIG such a smart move? You didn't seem to think so a few posts ago. Consistency is all I ask for. I think GWB & the R's & D's in congress screwed things up and Obama & the R's & D's in congress are going down the same path using the same people. Why is it that you don't see the similarities between the R's & D's and still have trust in these career politicians?
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Re: Horrible News For Anti-Obamaniacs. Economy Is Improving!

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:07 pm

Devil505 wrote:
jpete wrote:Yeah I do have a problem Devil. I can't count how many times I asked you a simple question and you obfuscate. I ask you the time and you tell me how to make a watch.


Debate is like a chess game Jeff.......We each have a strategy & tactics which cannot be dictated by our opponents.If you don't like the way you opponent smirks or the color of his shirt....you can choose not to play. I have my own techniques for games (like chess, hearts & debate) & for real life....... I play by the rules of whatever the game is..... but I always play to win.
You are whining that you don't like my tactics, but that means nothing to me. I like my tactics...which is often to anger & unnerve my opponent & force them into making a mistake. (hey.......that;'s why I'm the :devil: :devil: )

jpete wrote:I want to know if you know the difference between Austrian and Keynesian economics. If you were an honest and interested person, you'd find out.

I told you a thousand time I dont & I don't NEED to know. We elect Presidents who we HOPE know more than us in the hopes that THEY will make decisions which are normally beyond our capability to make. I consider myself I fairly intelligent & well informed citizen but I know my limitations......& advanced economics is NOT my strong suit nor do I believe it is yours.
Think of what your are demanding here Jeff.......You are demanding that I accept your opinion over that of some of the best economic minds in the world!....Listen to yourself....Are you really serious?!?!


You won nothing Devil. And you haven't made me angry. I'm am saddened and disappointed that this is the level of what passes for discourse in the country. Stone wall and call names until the other side figures out that there is no "winning" in the game and leaves. Then you can claim you "won".

But what have you won really? You can't change the laws of economics. You can win this battle and I guarantee you will lose the war.

The fact that you think the difference between Austrian and Keynesian economics is somehow "advanced" is testament to why newspapers are written on an eighth grade level. The general populace is as dumb as a tree and yet somehow thinks they are right about everything.

I am not demanding anything other than a yes or no answer. Something that you can't provide. Giving an answer to a question would leave you open to the possibility of being wrong. And that would shatter you socialist utopian idea. I was "hoping" that a person who considers themselves to be "fairly intelligent and informed" would at least have the initiative to Google the answer to the question. I'm not asking you to agree with one side or the other. Merely asking if you knew the difference. Not asking you to write a thesis. Just wondering if you were aware that there was another option.

How do you claim that these are "the best economic minds in the world"? Have you looked at the economy lately? It's not like Geithner is a "johnny come lately" he's been working for the Fed for years. What is your evidence that these people know better than some other group of people? For every economist you can hold up, I can find one to say the opposite. I think I proved you wrong on this before haven't I?

You want to be well informed yet you will put you future in the hands of people you don't know and can't know. Why would you do that? Are you really that unable to form a thought? Can you not make up your own mind?

I'll sit and do this until the server crashes Devil. I'm a pitbull. You can either answer my question of be prepared to go round and round like this forever.
jpete
 
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