Schools, throw money at the problem....

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Schools, throw money at the problem....

PostBy: Richard S. On: Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:19 am

Interesting and lengthy article I found written back in 1998, the usual argument is that schools are not funded enough:

Money And School Performance:Lessons from the Kansas City Desegregation Experiment

For decades critics of the public schools have been saying, "You can't solve educational problems by throwing money at them." The education establishment and its supporters have replied, "No one's ever tried." In Kansas City they did try. To improve the education of black students and encourage desegregation, a federal judge invited the Kansas City, Missouri, School District to come up with a cost-is-no-object educational plan and ordered local and state taxpayers to find the money to pay for it.


Kansas City spent as much as $11,700 per pupil--more money per pupil, on a cost of living adjusted basis, than any other of the 280 largest districts in the country. The money bought higher teachers' salaries, 15 new schools, and such amenities as an Olympic-sized swimming pool with an underwater viewing room, television and animation studios, a robotics lab, a 25-acre wildlife sanctuary, a zoo, a model United Nations with simultaneous translation capability, and field trips to Mexico and Senegal. The student-teacher ratio was 12 or 13 to 1, the lowest of any major school district in the country.

The results were dismal. Test scores did not rise; the black-white gap did not diminish; and there was less, not greater, integration.


I've read most of this article, it is quite lengthy. The conclusion is quite obvious, money is not going to solve this issue. It can certainly help but the fundamental issue with education in this country is the parents. Take for example private schools, I often hear it's better because of smaller class sizes, better teachers etc. That certainly may be a factor however the largest factor is those students have parents that are going to be much more involved in their education.

Solution to the problem? Not sure there is one but certainly putting more money into it isn't going to get us anywhere when the biggest concern of the parents of these kids is who is today's guest on Oprah.
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Re: Schools, throw money at the problem....

PostBy: cabinover On: Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:31 am

Want to know what I think? Here you go anyway :)

The majority of problems today can be traced back a couple generations ago when some whineass decided that you as a child shouldn't be stressed by your parent's rules nor punished for not following them. Then more whineasses got on the bandwagon and brought in psychiatrists to explain their side. As the ball continued to roll things kept going downhill, aided by the NEA, ACLU, and any other "rights" organizations that could be found. We have more teachers and aids in our local elementary school than were in both elementary AND high school when I went.

Now the answer is always to throw money at the problem. You can't walk down a street without seeing the results of this.

I grew up with a boot when I needed it. Didn't happen often but you know what, I learned PDQ what was expected of me. My kids get the same thing if they need it. My most proud moment is when someone tells me that my kids are courteous or well behaved/mannered. My chest just explodes because there aren't a handful of people I can say that about, grown adults or kids.
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Re: Schools, throw money at the problem....

PostBy: Devil505 On: Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:57 am

Richard S. wrote:Solution to the problem? Not sure there is one but certainly putting more money into it isn't going to get us anywhere when the biggest concern of the parents of these kids is who is today's guest on Oprah.


I agree that the school problem/poor education in this country is a result of much deeper..."Family Breakdown" problem in this country & cannot be easily solved. When I was a kid in the 1950's, almost every kid in school had both a mother & father. Usually the mother was home & there were less things (video games, computers, etc) to distract one's attention from playing sports, reading, talking as a family etc. Grandparents usually lived close by & kids learned to respect the elders & self-respect!
Now an intact family is rare!

We all try to raise our kids the way we were raised but most people are terrible at it!! :lol:
(My best friend has the worst spoiled kids that always drove me nuts, & he is an intelligent guy!)
Example:
When his daughter was about 6 years old, she had climbed up onto the top bunk of my daughters' bunk bed & I was afraid she'd fall.... so I told her she had to get down. She looked me right in the eye & said:..."I don't have too!"
Whereupon......I said "Oh yes you do!" :mad: .....& grabbed her by her skinny little arms & Lifted her down off the bed!
(I really wanted to break her arms & I fought with myself to not squeeze to tight as I put her down.....but I did get in a good squeeze!!)
She ran into the kitchen crying "Uncle Dick hurt me" to her parents. I felt like yelling the line my father always said to me:
"Come back here & I'll give you something to REALLY cry about?"

Anyway, I have no answers as to how to fix things but I do believe that all peoiple should be required to come before me for a decision as to whether or not they'll be allowed to have childeren! :lol: (No would be my answer in most cases!)
Last edited by Devil505 on Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Schools, throw money at the problem....

PostBy: samhill On: Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:01 am

I got to agree with you on that cabinover, I grew up in a small city where everyone pretty much knew one another & what kids belonged to whom. Back then more than once(slow learner) I was grabbed up by a neighbor & given heck for doing something I shouldn`t have. My biggest fear was them then calling home & me getting heck all over again exceot a lot more for embarressing my parents. Wasn`t no I`m going to sue that guy for dicplining my kid back then & there were no hard feelings from me toward my neighbor for doing whatever I got caught at. I was taught right from wrong & knew when I was trying to get away with something, more than once I went back & apologized for something that I had done.
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Re: Schools, throw money at the problem....

PostBy: spc On: Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:53 am

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Re: Schools, throw money at the problem....

PostBy: rberq On: Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:21 pm

Each generation of parents sees that the schools are not working, and doesn't know what to do about it. The school administrators say, "Just give us more money and we can fix it." So the parents, not knowing what else might work, pack the school committee and town meetings and vote more money for the schools. Nothing gets better, but pretty soon those kids grow up and leave school and that generation of parents loses interest. The next generation of parents comes along and sees that the schools are not working, and the administrators say, "Just give us more money and we can fix it." So the parents....

And so it continues unto the nth generation....
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Re: Schools, throw money at the problem....

PostBy: BillMarti On: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:26 am

I mentioned this in another post about parental responsibility. The problem started in 1962 ans has gotten worse every since. Then they started stripping parental right even farther by telling the children their parents had no right to use corporal punishment. Then they started the "sexual education" deceit and started handing out condoms promoting abortion without the parents consent and what recourse did the parents have the government backed up the school. Now the schools will have parents prosecuted if they discipline their children for any reason and now the schools PROMOTE HOMOSEXUALITY. So if you do your job disciplining your children you will quite possibly have a law suite against you and now you have a rebellious child on your hands you can't do nothing with who will be found to have ADD and drugged up with drugs that are proven to kill them. The government is completely responsible for this by again getting involved with something that should be dealt with in the home. The federal government should not have no power over the schools it's not within their job description. And the problems we're having in our government right now is a direct result of lack of personal discipline. The one's that react to this statement negatively are also a direct result of lack of personal discipline. Very few young adults have any respect for their elders or chose to learn from them the government has taught them entitlement and they DEMAND that. They also go out into the work force and think they deserve top pay or demand the pay of someone that has been there for 20 years because their"doing the same job" in which that someone earned that pay through 20 years of merit and col raises. So for those who can't figure out how we got here thank you government they passed these laws presented by the poor poor whiners a minority that should have not been heard in the first place it's always been a majority rule but the whiners always contest that because there is not enough of them go figure.

One of my daughters did threaten to call the police on me years ago because I disciplined her and I told her to pack her bags because she is going with the police. Needless to say she chose not to threaten on that matter again because she knew I would keep my word from past disrespect and discipline.

I also know a person that paid a very dear price because the school got involved in something they had no business in. What happened his boy was climbing a tree in which he fell out of got all banged up and broke his arm. When he went to school the next day he was asked what happened and he told them then they asked him if his father hits him and you guessed now the child welfare board got involved and was ready to remove the child from the home. They all had to see a psychiatrist for over a year and were told what they could and could not do to their son which meant NO DISCIPLINE. All involved were told by the boy and parents that he fell out of a tree so again WE THE PEOPLE have lost many of our implied CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS


Bill S
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Re: Schools, throw money at the problem....

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:02 pm

BillMarti wrote:I also know a person that paid a very dear price because the school got involved in something they had no business in. What happened his boy was climbing a tree in which he fell out of got all banged up and broke his arm.


Sounds like a crock of you know what to me too. Every kid that's beaten just happened to fall out of a tree or down a flight of stairs.....leading to contusions all over his/her body, broken bones, multiple bruises...everywhere.....Yeah right!!
I don't know your friend but if I was a teacher or a cop I would be looking real hard at that guy too....That's their job!
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Re: Schools, throw money at the problem....

PostBy: pvolcko On: Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:28 pm

Perhaps if there was a pattern of such injuries and the kid displayed various psychological/emotional/social hints, etc.

A kid shows up with a broken arm, a doctors note, a perfectly valid explanation, and is otherwise well adjusted... you leave well enough alone.
pvolcko
 

Re: Schools, throw money at the problem....

PostBy: BillMarti On: Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:31 pm

Devil,

Your response does in no way surprise me because if you read a few sentences back that is exactly who I was referring to. I went fishing for the big one and the bait didn't fail me. You are very very predictable. Those that are guilty always cry the loudest and always assume guilt of others they do not know and are always in denial of any responsibility of bad decisions. I've broken bones several times, needed stitches in my head several times. was shot in the head ,near drowned myself and when I look back it was lack of obeying my parents directions, but I know you'll assume my parents abused me ans caused these injuries. You continue to prove over and over how foolish you really are! by your foolish comments.

GOTTCHA

Bill S.
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Re: Schools, throw money at the problem....

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:54 pm

Geez. Devil isn't even here anymore and he gets my blood boiling. :D

I wasn't going to respond to this until I read his comments about it being a teachers job to look for child abuse.

I was pretty sure it was to educate children and I'm pretty sure the schools do a lousy job.
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Re: Schools, throw money at the problem....

PostBy: Richard S. On: Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:55 am

Well certainly they should be on the look out for that but we don't need over zealous teachers implicating innocent parents either. My one GF's daughter was accident prone, very active, fearless and bruised easily all rolled into one and she always looked beat up especially on her legs. I took them on a 2 week vacation once and between the bug bites, jelly fish sting, getting hit in the head with a book that slid off the shelf of the back of my car near rear window when I had to slam brakes on (my fault :oops: ) and various other things that happened to her during that trip you'd think she was abused. She had two bug bites on her legs that I think were from horse flies and they were black and blue and huge. When we got back the Grandmother wanted our heads on a platter. :P Her mother and I used to joke about it but it wouldn't have been funny if the cops showed up asking questions, her mother at times was actually in fear of some teacher thinking she was abused.
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Re: Schools, throw money at the problem....

PostBy: jpete On: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:30 am

I don't know if abuse allegations are more common, but I know that when they do get made, the reaction is usually over reaction. My wife and I actually decided NOT to go to the ER with my youngest son when he developed numerous bruises over a shot period of time. We were concerned the staff would report us.

We waited until we could see his regular pediatrician whom we have a relationship with and it turns out he has a potentially fatal blood condition. Luckily, nothing happened but it's a shame that a person has to make that decision.
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Re: Schools, throw money at the problem....

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:54 am

I believe that one of the biggest in school problems is that teachers are no longer teaching the way they want to. That is finding their own style, instead they have to follow a pre-determined study plan. All my teachers had their own way of keeping up your interest in a subject & didn`t follow strict guidelines. As for the home part its got a lot to do with the times we live in & also shows the result of the new way of parenting that has failed. It seems that every time we have something that works for most the few that don`t approve cry loud enough to change it.
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Re: Schools, throw money at the problem....

PostBy: Richard S. On: Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:36 am

Sam I can agree for your average student but you could have the greatest teachers in the world and if the kids are not being disciplined and taught at home how are they going to succeed? Some of these kids show up and don't even know how to tie their shoes. It's a teachers job to teach but they can't cover everything especially where basic life skills are concerned. Fundamentals especially at an early age before they get into school need to be taught. My niece is heading out for her first day Kindergarten this morning and she knows her ABC's, she can count to ten and can write her name and a few other things. How many kids from the inner city or have parents that have not taken interest are going to be along that far? Unless the kid is a genius the answer is none.

Whenever you read or hear about one these kids that is successful from the inner city there is one common factor you always hear in the story, they had a parent, Grandparent, Aunt, Uncle or whoever that pushed them to achieve.
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