Coal Bin Idea

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Bratkinson
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Post by Bratkinson » Mon. Apr. 06, 2009 4:13 pm

Although I'm only 2 months new to coal, I've been thinking about ways to build a coal bin full of rice coal for my Channing III. Carrying 50# bags down my hatchway got tired fast.

Looking through this thread, two of the ideas that really 'struck home' is to have a chute out the side of a coal bin with some kind of sluice gate type method (vertically sliding board in a dado) for on/off control. But to 'feed' it, what is needed is a "V" shape inside the coal bin. Given the fact that I would be dealing with rice coal, roughly a 45 degree angle on the "V" would be needed. I'm also considering using sheet tin on the sides of the "V" to make it more 'slippery' and therefore a lower angle.

Call it my 'problem', but I don't want to waste the space under the "V" to hold just basement air. So I got to thinking. How could I make the "V" be temporary.

So, the old light bulb went on and I figured some kind of hinge. While, certainly, a 4 foot long piano hinge would work, perhaps just 2 or 3 or 4 ordinary door hinges would be stonger and be cheaper. Better still, how about NO hinge? Just a 2x4 lagged to the floor (could be a bin sidewall) that would act as a "stop" and therefore a hinge point? But to get a 'slope' to my chute, the bottom of the "V" would have to be at least a foot or more off the floor. I'm still thinking about how to deal with that...maybe an inverted "V" until I raise it up. Again, looking for a way not to waste the space of perhaps a ton or more of coal.

OK, given a "V" (details to be solved later), how do I "raise it up" when the volume of coal in the bin gets down to half a ton or so? My first thought was to buy one or two floor-type car-jacks and put them under the outer edges of each side of the "V". I'm guessing I'd have to be lifting somewhere between 500# and 1000# of coal from a horizontal position to a 45 degree angle. So this would be no problem for a car jack. With the pole out the side of the bin, I could jack it up, and, given the jack I already have, a simple twist to lower it again. But then, when completely lowered, it's still 6" high...hmmmm...remember the slope problem to feed my chute and the foot or so off the floor???? The floor jack I have for my car goes from 6" to perhaps 24" high. That's nowhere near the 45 degree angle I'd need.

OK, how about one of those vertical hydraulic cylinder type models? I was just at Harbor Freight Tools today and looked at what they have. What I found was a such a jack that has 24" minimum height with a 20" stroke (lift) for $50. 44" off the floor might be workable, especially since the jack minimum is 24"...there'd be a wide-angle "V" to start with, and 20" extra might just do the trick. I'd probably position the jack perhaps 12-18" in from the outer edge of the "V", just to make it a sharper angle.

But then, as I wandered through Harbor Freight Tools some more, I came across cable winches...like those found on a boat trailer!!! The lightbulbs started exploding! FORGET THE FLOOR JACKS! How about a cable winch or two or three and a couple of pulleys? They lay completely flat, have ZERO vertical clearance needed, and, there's virtually no limit to the amount of 'lift' that could be obtained with a hand winch!!! And, best of all, they're only $25 at Harbor Freight Tools!

Does any of this sound reasonable? Yes, I know I'd have to frame-out and support the 1/2" or even 3/4" plywood sides of the "V" (I'm not a carpenter, though). I absolutely will NOT use particle board, although OSB might suffice.

Do any of you see any potential problems? Am I forgetting something??

Alternatively, I'm also considering a "mini-bin" 5 feet from the stove rather than a 5 ton bin across the basement. I don't have any basement windows near the stove, so the 'maxi bin' would be on the other side of the basement to use a basement window for coal delivery. Because my circuit breaker box is 36" to the right of my stove, I can't build anything substantial where I really would like to. The former 300 gal oil tank was about 48" in front of the breaker box along the front wall (the breaker box is almost in the corner). That's where my mini-bin would go. To load the mini-bin, I'm thinking of a 4" PVC pipe through the former oil-filler pipe hole (made larger) with a custom designed 'funnel' on the outside. Because of the need for a 45 degree angle, my mini bid would be wall mounted (with supporting legs) and hold perhaps 300-400# of coal. I'd still be schlepping 50# bags out of my garage to the 'funnel', but it's only 15 feet from the garage. I'd lose the price advantage of loose rather than bagged coal, but it still beats the daylights out of the hatchway steps on the back of the house when the (detached) garage is 50-60' from the hatchway and the stove is 30' or so from the hatchway. The downside of the mini-bin is the funnel location outside. Believe it or not, I have an outdoor water faucet that was just above the old oil filler pipes!!! The good news is it would be only 7 feet from my back door, on the other side of the masonry chimney.

Am I looney? Or does any of this make sense?

 
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Post by 009to090 » Mon. Apr. 06, 2009 4:30 pm

K.I.S.S. Usually, the best method :D

 
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Richard S.
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Post by Richard S. » Mon. Apr. 06, 2009 7:21 pm

Bratkinson wrote:Am I looney?
In a nutshell yes. :P

Bins that have a V design are only good if directing the coal onto a worm. Since you already need to go get the coal anyway you might as well just build a simple box with a sliding doorway like coalkirk has:
Some other things to consider:
is to have a chute out the side of a coal bin with some kind of sluice gate type method
These don't work very well for a variety or reasons. Firstly they have to be high off the ground to be of any use. Secondly you're going to get very little coal out of them before you have start pushing it to the gate. It's easier just to have a walk in bin.
Bratkinson wrote:I'm also considering using sheet tin on the sides of the "V" to make it more 'slippery' and therefore a lower angle
With a 45 you shouldn't have any trouble with plywood, having said that don't use any type of metal that can rust including galvanized because once the rust forms this surface becomes very non slip. Either use stainless, aluminum or a vinyl sheeting.
Bratkinson wrote:Call it my 'problem', but I don't want to waste the space under the "V"
How about simply making it storage space for something else accessible from the outside? Assuming of course you still want to go ahead with this.

---------------------

The outside bin that funnels right to the stove makes the most sense to me especially if you can get all your coal into it.


 
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Post by CapeCoaler » Mon. Apr. 06, 2009 8:23 pm

Big bulk bin with an auger to the hopper.
Price savings of bulk will pay for the auger.
No lifting of bags.

 
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ablumny
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Post by ablumny » Tue. Apr. 07, 2009 7:50 am

I have a 3 ton bin with a chute into my garage for rice coal. After fill up, It doesn't take long at all for a valley to form towards the chute and have to start raking. Short of creating the angled floor and losing the space, I don't see a fix. I am thinking of vibration however. If I could "shake" the bin the rice would level out.... I think. Summer project!

 
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Post by whistlenut » Tue. Apr. 07, 2009 8:08 am

Careful using any form of vibration device. Fines you don't even know you have will become your next issue. Good idea, but rethink the means of delivery. 'KISS' works best. Even the old timers succumbed to 'KISS' after many attempts to outguess the obvious. Any way you look at it, there is work involved....that is the rest of the story. :D :lol: :lol:


 
Bratkinson
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Post by Bratkinson » Tue. Apr. 07, 2009 3:40 pm

In tossing the hinge idea to one of my co-workers today, who is also a new coaler and helped convince me to make the switch, he immediately knew that when I swing up the "V" from level, it will create a gap at the sides! Duh! It never dawned on me! It was instantly obvious to him, fortunately! I guess that's the end of the hinge idea... unless I wanted to come up with some sidewall gap covering such as another sheet of plywood hinged at the top...and it gets way too complex and expensive at that point. As I've learned from my job and Whistlenut reminded me...KISS! How soon we forget hard learned lessons of the past!

An auger sounds like a super solution, but it would have to be about 30 feet from inside the bin to my hopper. I'd have to consider cost issues vs shoveling and carrying with this 61 year old body... But it DOES sound like a good solution! I'll have to check out some pricing or see if I can find a farm foreclosure sale or something...

The sliding doorway and a shove truly -I-S- the simplest, most obvious solution.

Back to the old mental drawing boards again....

Thanks to all for your input!

 
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ablumny
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Post by ablumny » Tue. Apr. 07, 2009 6:41 pm

whistlenut wrote:Careful using any form of vibration device. Fines you don't even know you have will become your next issue. Good idea, but rethink the means of delivery. 'KISS' works best. Even the old timers succumbed to 'KISS' after many attempts to outguess the obvious. Any way you look at it, there is work involved....that is the rest of the story. :D :lol: :lol:
YEP forgot about the resulting fines problem. argh. thx

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