Dividing NY into upstate NY and downstate NY

Dividing NY into upstate NY and downstate NY

PostBy: the snowman On: Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:01 pm

I live in upstate NY and can understand the new bill being put together to divide NY into two states. Any thoughts?
the snowman
 
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Re: Dividing NY into upstate NY and downstate NY

PostBy: Berlin On: Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:28 pm

haven't heard of this, but i'd be in favor!
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Re: Dividing NY into upstate NY and downstate NY

PostBy: Dann757 On: Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:34 pm

How is that ever going to happen.
My nephew lives on his wife's third generation family farm near Auburn, NY outside of Syracuse. This small dairy farm has spectacular views, these people are the salt of the earth. They have fields, woods, ponds, fresh air, amazing work ethic. I can sure see the difference between there and the NY Metropolitan area where I live. I've always thought NYC was kind of like a huge money drain at the bottom of the state.
Dann757
 


Re: Dividing NY into upstate NY and downstate NY

PostBy: franco b On: Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:40 pm

Being attached to NYC is like having a tiger by the tail. Too dangerous to let go.

It would be great to get rid of the corruption, but all the industry that upstate once had, has long ago been chased out.

If there was available another Teddy Roosevelt as governor it might work.

It also depends on where the state line is drawn.

Richard
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Re: Dividing NY into upstate NY and downstate NY

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:42 pm

Dann757 wrote:How is that ever going to happen.


It won't.
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Re: Dividing NY into upstate NY and downstate NY

PostBy: brckwlt On: Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:45 pm

Why do they want it divided? and what would the new state be called?
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Re: Dividing NY into upstate NY and downstate NY

PostBy: franco b On: Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:51 pm

Dann757 wrote:How is that ever going to happen.
I've always thought NYC was kind of like a huge money drain at the bottom of the state.


The problem is the other way around. The money is in NYC. Upstate is poor. If upstate was cut loose then there would be a lot more money for NYC politicians to steal. That's probably why it is proposed.

Richard
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Re: Dividing NY into upstate NY and downstate NY

PostBy: BobDavis On: Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:30 pm

Why it won't happen:
Another Red State added to the union.
Too many upstaters on the down state teat.
Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, and Albany would out weigh the rural counties in the vote.
NY city would never stand for it (wouldn't want to give up upstate vacation spots :D )
Downstate controls both houses and governor. Any NY constitutional convention would be dominated by NYC.

I deleted about 5 others that were a little over the top. (I'm a little angry over some tax increases but what is new for NY.)

I have a thought about changing the senate of NY to one delegate from each county - somewhat like the US Senate (two reps from each State)
That would have a dramatic impact on the political make of the NY State Senate and offset the vote by population that we now have.




BD
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Re: Dividing NY into upstate NY and downstate NY

PostBy: the snowman On: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:38 pm

The proposed bill to split the state into (upstate NY) and (Downstate NY) was initiated by James Seward, R-Milford with Joe Robach as another sponsor of the bill. The boundaries for a split between upstate and downstate would probably be Westchester and Rockland Counties. The bill calls for a referendum that would officially ask voters that question (should NY be split). Seward said that upstate interests are currently not being met in state government because all the key state players are from New York City or Long Island. Robert Ward, deputy director of Rochefeller Institute of Goverment in Albany, said the possibility of New York splitting into two states is virtually inconceivable, however. "New states may be admitted by the Congress into this union; but no new states shall be formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any other state; nor any state formed by the junction of two or more states, or parts of states without the consent of the legislatures of the states concerned as well as of the congress," according to Article 4 section 3. If the question made the ballot, and passed, the process of forming a new state would be a lengthly one, according to the constitution. People all over the state are talking about the politics of this. It is not impossible to form a new state; just a difficult task. There are pro's and con's to splitting the state. According to Joel barkin, spokesman for the New York State Department, "No one has ever considered this, it is a federal issue." This debate will heat up as the bill gains momentum as the days pass.

Let us not forget the issue upstate residents have concerning the water earmarked for downstate use, upstate power production for downstate use, and large tracts of land earmarked for downstate garbage. This is just a small sample; I'm sure those who live downstate can list issues they have with upstate NY. Any downstate residents have a list?
Last edited by the snowman on Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dividing NY into upstate NY and downstate NY

PostBy: KLook On: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:45 pm

It has been talked about in Maine also. But it will never happen for the same reasons. Funny, Portland etc. is "downstate" to us also. Or should I say the Boston suburb of Portland.

Kevin
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Re: Dividing NY into upstate NY and downstate NY

PostBy: Steve.N On: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:15 am

BobDavis wrote:Too many upstaters on the down state teat.


We upstaters have always felt that it was the other way around.

This is actually not a new idea. Years ago there was talk of NYC succeding from the rest of NY state and becoming a state of their own.

the snowman wrote: The boundaries for a split between upstate and downstate would probably be Westchester and Rockland Counties.


This sort of sounds like the same idea. A year or two ago when welfare limits were reached 95% of the welfare reciepents in the state were in NYC. I say let them go though I beleve the city will become a burden on the feds. New York state has a population of 19,297,000 and 8,275,000 live in NYC. Those of us in the so called upstate (anything north of Weschester ) own and pay tax on the majority of the state yet only represent half of the population
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Re: Dividing NY into upstate NY and downstate NY

PostBy: the snowman On: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:27 am

Steve. N:

I remember when this idea was tossed around a few years back.
the snowman
 
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Re: Dividing NY into upstate NY and downstate NY

PostBy: the snowman On: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:55 am

Seward argues that upstate dereives a good deal of revenue from New York City, however, he also brings up the point that this is offset by the significant cost upstate residents have to pay for and he gives one example of Medicaid expenses. If the state is split, the question of how will upstate generate money? A couple of proposals have been offered: New York City will have to purchase the water they get from the damns located upstate, down state will have to purchase the electricity they consume from upstate generation facilities, down state will have to pay heavier dues to dump garbage in upstate waste facilities, down state residents wishing to own plush cottages upstate will have to pay more for that luxury and finally upstate will save a large amount of money in medicaid payments and welfare. I also hear the funding of public education is also a hot topic concerning how money is distributed between down state and upstate. Any thoughts?
the snowman
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Jotul 507
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Re: Dividing NY into upstate NY and downstate NY

PostBy: Steve.N On: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:02 am

I did a little poking around and according to Wikipedia the idea goes back to the turn of the 19th century. There is an interesting map showing the demarcation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U. ... s#New_York
Steve.N
 
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Re: Dividing NY into upstate NY and downstate NY

PostBy: ken On: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:06 am

Never happen , theres no room on the flag for another star. :D
ken
 
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