Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:26 pm

Lest anyone think the people are simple hoodlum you are mistaken.

It is organized crime on the high seas.
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:41 pm

Black_And_Blue wrote:
Devil505 wrote:......would someone please explain to me why it appears to be so difficult for a large ship at sea to successfully prevent a small group of untrained criminals from approaching & boarding their ship while underway?


Liberalism.

Edit : In the modern Progressive sense. Don't get all persnickety and post Wiki definitions and such. You know what I mean.


I'm a liberal.........The only President to ever drop an A-bomb in anger was a liberal Democrat (Truman) ...the only President to send Delta Force into Iran was a liberal Democrat (Carter)...the only President to stare down the Soviet Union with H-bombs was a Liberal Democrat (Kennedy) & you.......... are simply wrong. (you really need to turn Fox News OFF occasionally) ;)

You Neocons TALK a great game but.....it's always just talk. ;)
Last edited by Devil505 on Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: sterling40man On: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:12 pm

No offense to anybody but, I love this forum!! I just don't understand why every topic , that's not about coal, has to turn political! :confused: :annoyed: :poke: :wtf:
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:18 pm

sterling_40man wrote:No offense to anybody but, I love this forum!! I just don't understand why every topic , that's not about coal, has to turn political! :confused: :annoyed: :poke:



I agree & suggest you ask Black_And_Blue (I had not one political line in this thread prior to that)

Black_And_Blue wrote: Devil505 wrote:......would someone please explain to me why it appears to be so difficult for a large ship at sea to successfully prevent a small group of untrained criminals from approaching & boarding their ship while underway?



Liberalism.
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:25 pm

To answer the original question...

The reason that merchant ships are such easy targets is that they are hugely under-crewed and basically don't keep adequate watch. You often only have one guy on the bridge, especially at night. He glances at the radar every 10 minutes or so. A laden supertanker has a very low freeboard, so getting aboard is not hard.

For example the Sirius Star, the tanker that was taken recently has a crew of 25. This is a 1100 foot long 165,000 GT ship.
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:34 pm

ErikLaurence wrote:To answer the original question...

The reason that merchant ships are such easy targets is that they are hugely under-crewed and basically don't keep adequate watch. You often only have one guy on the bridge, especially at night. He glances at the radar every 10 minutes or so. A laden supertanker has a very low freeboard, so getting aboard is not hard.

For example the Sirius Star, the tanker that was taken recently has a crew of 25. This is a 1100 foot long 165,000 GT ship.


Now that makes sense.

Edit:
So...different type ships need different security measures...ie..a passenger cruise ship has a large crew with a very high freeboard, so a couple of crewmen with Daisy air rifles should be able to defend them adequately. :lol:
An under-crewed, low freeboard tanker would need some thing like.......Remember the Nautilus in Walt Disney's 1950's "20,000 Leagues Under The Sea" had an electric shock system that shocked anyone walking on the deck? ....How about something like that!?!? :lol:
Last edited by Devil505 on Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:48 pm

So low draft ships are prone to piracy, I see.

Clearly this is the root cause.
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:17 pm

Devil505 wrote:
ErikLaurence wrote:To answer the original question...

The reason that merchant ships are such easy targets is that they are hugely under-crewed and basically don't keep adequate watch. You often only have one guy on the bridge, especially at night. He glances at the radar every 10 minutes or so. A laden supertanker has a very low freeboard, so getting aboard is not hard.

For example the Sirius Star, the tanker that was taken recently has a crew of 25. This is a 1100 foot long 165,000 GT ship.


Now that makes sense.

Edit:
So...different type ships need different security measures...ie..a passenger cruise ship has a large crew with a very high freeboard, so I couple of crewmen with Daisy air rifles should be able to defend them adequately. :lol:
An under-crewed, low freeboard tanker would need some thing like.......Remember the Nautilus in Walt Disney's 1950's "20,000 Leagues Under The Sea" had an electric shock system that shocked anyone walking on the deck? ....How about something like that!?!? :lol:


I don't believe they've ever successfully taken a cruise ship. They went after one a while back, but that's the one kind of ship that actually has a lot of crew, they saw the pirates coming, the pirates hit the with some RPG's at them, but never got on board.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4409662.stm

Seems there was another attempt last year

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wir ... id=6372888

Same story, if you see them coming it's pretty easy to deal with it. Once they are aboard it's tough. The Farina (or whatever it was called), the weapons ship they hijacked, there were 50 hijackers against a crew of about 20.
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:22 pm

CNN (Anderson 360) just interviewed an ex Navy Seal who said many of these pirates skiffs come from larger "Mother Ships" that allow them to come out quite a distance from shore. (in this case I think he said they are about 350 miles form land)
My question is....With the satellite technology & air assets we have (worldwide) how is it possible that we can't simply track these small pirate craft back to their Mother ships & blow them out of the water???
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:32 pm

Devil505 wrote:CNN (Anderson 360) just interviewed an ex Navy Seal who said many of these pirates skiffs come from larger "Mother Ships" that allow them to come out quite a distance from shore. (in this case I think he said they are about 350 miles form land)
My question is....With the satellite technology & air assets we have (worldwide) how is it possible that we can't simply track these small pirate craft back to their Mother ships & blow them out of the water???



There is basically no US flag commercial shipping in the region. Flags of convenience make this someone elses problem. I don't think the Liberians have many air assets or satellite technology.
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:34 pm

Devil505 wrote:.....My question is....With the satellite technology & air assets we have (worldwide) how is it possible that we can't simply track these small pirate craft back to their Mother ships & blow them out of the water???


All it takes is the political will to do so.
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:44 pm

ErikLaurence wrote:There is basically no US flag commercial shipping in the region. Flags of convenience make this someone elses problem. I don't think the Liberians have many air assets or satellite technology.


But U.S. citizens are on ships all over the world & with terrorism ....our most dangerous threat today & the emergence of Piracy becoming a serious world-wide threat to U.S. citizens & interests, why not use our multi-billion dollar "Overhead" assets ( Spy satellites & recon aircraft....designed to defeat a threat that has been gone for many years now....The Soviet Union) to counter the REAL threats we now face? Following a few skiffs back to their pirate mother ship should be simple & then send in the A-10 Warthogs & AC130 Gunships to "Chum" the waters a bit!! :mad:

Edit: Take this situation right now: I can't envision a possible scenario of how the pirates could possibly get away with this crime, regardless of what they do with the American Hostage they are holding in an open lifeboat in the middle of he ocean. If they kill him, we blow their lifeboat out of the water. If they let him go........We SAY we won't follow them...& then ....FINS...WE LIED.....we follow them back to their mother ship & blow them all out of the water!!
The only difference I see is WHEN we blow them to Hell.....Now or later?? :mad: :mad:
As far as I'm concerned they (Pirates) are already dead men. They kill he U.S. Captain they are holding & we immediately send them to Hell....They let him go & they gain a few more hours of life....& then we blow them to Hell, right?
Last edited by Devil505 on Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: Yanche On: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:50 pm

Devil505 wrote: My question is....With the satellite technology & air assets we have (worldwide) how is it possible that we can't simply track these small pirate craft back to their Mother ships & blow them out of the water???

Both the military space based cameras, radars and radio eavesdropping equipment are focused on where most of the people are, on land not the ocean. Even the private for profit space cameras are focused (pun intended) on land. High resolution systems are low altitude and need very specific orbits. Moving them would not be easy if at all possible. I have some experience designing systems to track submerged subs on a global basis. It isn't easy even when you know their port of departure. The ocean is mighty big and it all looks very similar.
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: Paulie On: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:52 pm

Stamp it out the way it was stamped out 150 odd years ago. Hunt them down and kill them. Kill them in the water, kill
them when they try to board, kill them when they leave, kill them at their home base. The pirates are taking advantage
of a 'lawless" area. Well, that is a two way street. No law at home to stop you, but also no law to save your ass when someone comes for you. Bring the fight to the Pirate. :rambo2: :chop:
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:56 pm

Yanche wrote:
Devil505 wrote: My question is....With the satellite technology & air assets we have (worldwide) how is it possible that we can't simply track these small pirate craft back to their Mother ships & blow them out of the water???

Both the military space based cameras, radars and radio eavesdropping equipment are focused on where most of the people are, on land not the ocean. Even the private for profit space cameras are focused (pun intended) on land. High resolution systems are low altitude and need very specific orbits. Moving them would not be easy if at all possible. I have some experience designing systems to track submerged subs on a global basis. It isn't easy even when you know their port of departure. The ocean is mighty big and it all looks very similar.


You obviously have expertise in this & I have none Yanche....BUT....It's my understanding that these satellites fly orbits around the entire earth & couldn't we just re-program the cameras to give us a view of any spot on earth that they fly over?
How about the geosynchronous satellites we have that stay above the same patch of ground 24/7? (I know they are further out but are you sure that they have no visual capability?)
Last edited by Devil505 on Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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