Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: Yanche On: Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:14 am

Devil505 wrote:
Yanche wrote:Both the military space based cameras, radars and radio eavesdropping equipment are focused on where most of the people are, on land not the ocean. Even the private for profit space cameras are focused (pun intended) on land. High resolution systems are low altitude and need very specific orbits. Moving them would not be easy if at all possible. I have some experience designing systems to track submerged subs on a global basis. It isn't easy even when you know their port of departure. The ocean is mighty big and it all looks very similar.


You obviously have expertise in this & I have none Yanche....BUT....It's my understanding that these satellites fly orbits around the entire earth & couldn't we just re-program the cameras to give us a view of any spot on earth that they fly over?
How about the geosynchronous satellites we have that stay above the same patch of ground 24/7? (I know they are further out but are you sure that they have no visual capability?)

The layman's explanation of satellite orbits is here (http://marine.rutgers.edu/mrs/education ... bits2.html). IF you could have a camera system with sufficient resolution the non geosynchronous orbits can not observe one spot on earth continuously. Geosynchronous satellites stay in one place but they are way to far away to have cameras with sufficient resolution. The bigger problem is where do you look. Think of having to point your high resolution telephoto camera lens up into the heavens and find a specific star (pirate ship), but you don't know where the star is. Impossible. It likely the P3 Orion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-3_Orion) that is tracking the pirates got considerable help in where to look from the ship that was boarded.
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:34 am

Thanks Yanche...Fascinating stuff this overhead photography!
My uncle was an aeronautical engineer for Lockheed from the mid 1950's through the early 80's & could never talk about what he did, but I know he was involved with some of the early Top Secret stuff like the KH (Keyhole) spy satellites & the like.
(way to much math for me to truly understand but fascinating, nonetheless!)

http://www.ask.com/bar?q=Keyhole+satellites&page=1&qsrc=19&ab=0&u=http%3A%2F%2Fscience.howstuffworks.com%2Fquestion529.htm
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: Steve.N On: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:30 am

We discussed safe rooms at home. If I was operating a ship in this area I would have the ship set up so the crew could fasten all outside doors and prevent entry to protect the crew then maby a few remote camera operated guns to sweep the decks if boarded.
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:38 am

Steve.N wrote:We discussed safe rooms at home. If I was operating a ship in this area I would have the ship set up so the crew could fasten all outside doors and prevent entry to protect the crew then maby a few remote camera operated guns to sweep the decks if boarded.


The safe room would have to be a fort! (RPG's can punch through almost anything)
Easier to keep them off the ship in the first place. Once aboard, it's pretty much over.
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:12 pm

a hundred gallon tank with gasoline piped to a few fire-hose nozzles port,starbord and aft then a spark should keep em from gettin on board?? :P flame-on :D
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: morrisfamily3098 On: Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:49 pm

:wtf: I say kill them all :rambo2: :rambo2: :rambo: :rambo3: they put air marshals on airplanes why not sea marshals. screw the countries who dont agree we wont take their exports if they dont. Once that happens they will be with us faster than flies on $!&#. The pirates wont get any money if they blow up the ship right. they have proven that they want ransom money. let them come aboard then they will be dead.
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:12 pm

morrisfamily3098 wrote:I say kill them all :rambo2: :rambo2: :rambo: :rambo3:


I agree with you totally!
I'm quite serious when I say that surrender should not be an option open to these pirates under any circumstance!
(there is certainly no question that: these men are guilty of piracy on the high seas, that they would show no mercy to their victims & deserve none in return)

Would anyone on this forum care to explain where I am wrong?


1. There is no doubt as to their guilt
2. Piracy carries the penalty of death to the guilty party (or should)
3. Swift justice is what is called for & should be dealt out. (who knows....it may even deter others from committing the heinous crime of piracy)

Edit: Found this:

Today, the primary source of antipiracy law is title 18, chapter 81, of the United States Code, although numerous other antipiracy provisions are scattered throughout the code. Additionally, international cooperation has shaped a unique form of jurisdictional agreement among nations. Significant in bringing about this cooperation was the geneva convention on the High Seas of April 29, 1958 and the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. The primary effect of such agreements is to allow pirates to be apprehended on the high seas—meaning outside of territorial limits—by the authorities of any nation and punished under its own law. This standard is unique because nations are generally forbidden by International Law from interfering with the vessels of another nation on the high seas. It arose because piracy itself has never vanished; in fact, since the 1970s, it has appeared to have undergone a resurgence.

I'm trying to find the legal wording which confers the death penalty on pirates but, since kidnapping itself can carry that ultimate penalty, I can't imagine why piracy wouldn't do the same.
Last edited by Devil505 on Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: Paulie On: Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:19 pm

beemerboy wrote:
Paulie wrote:Stamp it out the way it was stamped out 150 odd years ago. Hunt them down and kill them. Kill them in the water, kill them when they try to board, kill them when they leave, kill them at their home base. The pirates are taking advantage of a 'lawless" area. Well, that is a two way street. No law at home to stop you, but also no law to save your ass when someone comes for you. Bring the fight to the Pirate. :rambo2: :chop:


One of the major problems with that approach is that in Somalia where most of the pirates come from is that they are so poor that it easy to recruit them. After a ship is hijacked and the ransom is paid, each man may get a couple of thousand (if that) which is more money than they could possibly earn in a year by legal means.

To stamp them out would be like trying to stamp out a nest of ants while wearing hiking boots.

There is no easy answer to stopping this madness.

Take away the profit and replace it with death, and the problem goes away. As long as they get paid, they will keep trying.
Don't pay them, they stop. Don't pay them and kill them, then they will stop even quicker, and will give up trying. Poor is poor, but dead is dead. It is one thing for a desperate man to risk his life for a paycheck, but even a desperate man will
not risk his life for nothing. Take away the sugar, and the ants are gone.
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:46 pm

What does everyone else see when they look at the photo below of Somalian pirates at sea?
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I see a boatload of chum waiting to be chopped up by 20mm Vulcan or 30mm Avenger rounds & fed to the sharks. ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-8_Avenger
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:15 pm

Devil505 wrote:What does everyone else see when they look at the photo below of Somalian pirates at sea?
somali-pirates-404_675902c.jpg







I see a boatload of chum waiting to be chopped up by 20mm Vulcan or 30mm Avenger rounds & fed to the sharks. ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-8_Avenger



Without crew members standing watch, eyes and binocs on the horizon, all the Gatling guns in the world won't save you.

Stop running ships with skeleton crews and the pirates will be thwarted.
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:22 pm




The Gatling gun is total overkill. A SAW would be more than adequate.
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:26 pm

ErikLaurence wrote:



The Gatling gun is total overkill. A SAW would be more than adequate.



I disagree......Small chunks of chum attract more sharks than a few big chunks. :lol:
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:35 pm

Devil505 wrote:
ErikLaurence wrote:



The Gatling gun is total overkill. A SAW would be more than adequate.



I disagree......Small chunks of chum attract more sharks than a few big chunks. :lol:



OK, but wouldn't the M61 be enough? The gun off an A10 is like 15 feet long.
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:47 pm

ErikLaurence wrote:OK, but wouldn't the M61 be enough?


You got me there......M61?

Edit: Oh...ok the 20mm Vulcan! (I mentioned it above) That would do fine!
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Re: Piracy...Why So Hard To Defend Against?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:51 pm

ErikLaurence wrote:The gun off an A10 is like 15 feet long.


But like I said....Smaller pieces of chum spread further to attract sharks! (& 30mm will make very small pieces!) :lol:
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