CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:08 am

I believe that its Sen. Laehey from Vermont thats really pushing this issue & rightfully so. If as a country you abide by the Geneva Convention & have a military Code of Honor then you should hold true to it or publicly declare that you are no longer going to. The files released so far (from what I heard) were released thru the freedom of information act & had to be de-classified first & I am thinking that there are more to come. If you live under rules & laws you should abide by them, if you order someone to violate them & then punish the lowest people possible for doing it then you are not only commiting a crime but are a coward as well. You can`t cry about how your captured forces are being treated if your doing the same. As soon as someone was decapitated we should have wiped out a whole area, no questions asked. You can`t commit a crime & then try to justify it, a crime is a crime & should be punished no matter who.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: Jeddbird On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:21 am

What I find hard to believe is that if torture really was effective in thwarting terrorist attacks, how come none of these "Sucesses" were "inadvertantly leaked" (like so many other convenient "Leaks" were that bolstered Mr. Cheney's positions) when the prior administration was in power and could have done it?
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: Jeddbird On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:32 am

mr1precision wrote:It seems like Obama is spending more time trying to point fingers at the past and not looking forward like he promised he would.


All crimes happened in the past. If I rob a bank & kill 3 people in the process, how succesful do you think I would be in court if my defense attorney tried to convince the judge that the case should be thrown out because it happened in the past & that we should "Look Forward"to the future?
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: spc On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:47 am

I get it, you guys are playing devil's advocate. ;)

Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

" President Obama’s national intelligence director told colleagues in a private memo last week that the harsh interrogation techniques banned by the White House did produce significant information that helped the nation in its struggle with terrorists."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/us/po ... blair.html

“High value information came from interrogations in which those methods were used and provided a deeper understanding of the al Qa’ida organization that was attacking this country,” Adm. Dennis C. Blair, the intelligence director, wrote in a memo to his staff last Thursday.

The Central Intelligence Agency told CNSNews.com today that it stands by the assertion made in a May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that the use of “enhanced techniques” of interrogation on al Qaeda leader Khalid Sheik Mohammed
(You guys remember him, he bragged he personally beheaded journalist Daniel Pearl) (KSM) — including the use of waterboarding — caused KSM to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to thwart a planned attack on Los Angeles.

Before he was waterboarded, when KSM was asked about planned attacks on the United States, he ominously told his CIA interrogators, “Soon, you will know.”

According to the previously classified May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that was released by President Barack Obama last week, the thwarted attack — which KSM called the “Second Wave”– planned “ ‘to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into’ a building in Los Angeles.”


http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=46949
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


BTW This country lost it's moral compass long ago, do in no part to water-boarding.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: cabinover On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:04 am

spc wrote:
BTW This country lost it's moral compass long ago, do in no part to water-boarding.



Boy have you nailed it there.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: brckwlt On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:24 pm

jpete wrote:
So no "innocent" people were killed in the last 6 years or so? I don't think you want to go there.


Innocent people die in every war, thats to bad.

The difference is We dont go out looking to kill innocent people, our muslims enemies do
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: brckwlt On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:27 pm

Jeddbird wrote:
mr1precision wrote:It seems like Obama is spending more time trying to point fingers at the past and not looking forward like he promised he would.


All crimes happened in the past. If I rob a bank & kill 3 people in the process, how succesful do you think I would be in court if my defense attorney tried to convince the judge that the case should be thrown out because it happened in the past & that we should "Look Forward"to the future?



The "torture" tactics that were used were signed off on and agreed upon by congress and the like. so how can you okay something then as soon as the power changes in the white say oh we really didnt like that so we will prosecute you for it now? makes no sense to me. Just a bunch of low life cowards hating on republicans.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: mr1precision On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:39 pm

The real question here is why didnt Obama realease all the docs. Not just the ones where an enemy combatant who got a boo boo and his feelings hurt. Why didnt they avoid the docs that showed results? Wasnt it the CIA revealed that they uncover LA plot and not obama?

Here's something everyone should see.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: Jeddbird On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:38 pm

brckwlt wrote:The "torture" tactics that were used were signed off on and agreed upon by congress and the like. so how can you okay something then as soon as the power changes in the white say oh we really didnt like that so we will prosecute you for it now? makes no sense to me. Just a bunch of low life cowards hating on republicans.



Exactly what was told to the Congress is being disputed so we'll have to see who is lying.



mr1precision wrote:The real question here is why didnt Obama realease all the docs


That I agree with. Release ALL the documents to prove things once & for all.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: spc On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:02 pm

Jeddbird wrote:Exactly what was told to the Congress is being disputed so we'll have to see who is lying.


"In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA's overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk.
Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding,...

Yet long before "waterboarding" entered the public discourse, the CIA gave key legislative overseers about 30 private briefings, some of which included descriptions of that technique and other harsh interrogation methods, according to interviews with multiple U.S. officials with firsthand knowledge."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01664.html



And she is third in line. :sick:
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: mr1precision On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:40 pm

I have no problem with HARSH treatment (not Brutal) of our sworn ememies. However, it's lying slimebags like Nance Pelosi that I cant stand. Yes, it's very scary that she's 3rd in line. :shock:
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: Jeddbird On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:56 pm

I guess my bottom line on torture can be summed up with a couple of points.

Is torture an effective method to get reliable information?

This is debatable but most of the experts I have heard say that it is not.
Atty Gen Holder today, testifying at at a House Appropriation’s Justice Subcmte heaing said that the enhanced techniques "were not particularly effective" & the info could have been gotten through traditional interrogation techniques.
http://www.c-span.org/


Even if it is effective, should this country do it?

In this regard I would emphatically say no. We are not Nazis and if we aren't clever enough to outsmart our enemies to get critical information from them, without resorting to becoming the barbarians that they are, then we should just accept the reality that we can't know everything we want to know.

I believe that anyone who knew about what was really taking place & did nothing is as guilty as those who tortured people.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:18 pm

Perhaps we should use less than lethal rubber bullets, bean bag rounds and pepper spray during combat so as not to actually hurt anyone.......but only if the lawyers give approval first. :roll:
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:22 pm

Black_And_Blue wrote:Perhaps we should use less than lethal rubber bullets, bean bag rounds and pepper spray during combat so as not to actually hurt anyone.......but only if the lawyers give approval first. :roll:


You are mixing apples and oranges in order to cloud the argument. GitMo is not a battlefield in Iraq.

If a guy is shooting at you, you can be pretty sure who he is, and what his intentions are.

If you have a guy strapped to a 2 x 4, maybe you have the right guy, maybe you don't. And if you don't, no amount of "interrogation" will provide actionable intel.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: mr1precision On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:29 pm

jpete wrote:
Black_And_Blue wrote:Perhaps we should use less than lethal rubber bullets, bean bag rounds and pepper spray during combat so as not to actually hurt anyone.......but only if the lawyers give approval first. :roll:


You are mixing apples and oranges in order to cloud the argument. GitMo is not a battlefield in Iraq.

If a guy is shooting at you, you can be pretty sure who he is, and what his intentions are.

If you have a guy strapped to a 2 x 4, maybe you have the right guy, maybe you don't. And if you don't, no amount of "interrogation" will provide actionable intel.


The difference between the way the U.S. "tortures" and our enemies method is our captives get to live.
Although I think that making them listen to Madonna for 12 hrs a day is really mean.
mr1precision
 
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