CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:33 pm

People in Gitmo didn't just accidentally get there.

Somehow they survived a JDAM or .50 Barrett that would have otherwise terminated their existence.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:36 pm

jpete wrote:If you have a guy strapped to a 2 x 4, maybe you have the right guy, maybe you don't. And if you don't, no amount of "interrogation" will provide actionable intel.


When the guy brags to you he cut a Jew's head off on video, you can be sure you have the right guy.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:40 pm

coaledsweat wrote:
jpete wrote:If you have a guy strapped to a 2 x 4, maybe you have the right guy, maybe you don't. And if you don't, no amount of "interrogation" will provide actionable intel.


When the guy brags to you he cut a Jew's head off on video, you can be sure you have the right guy.


I killed Jimmy Hoffa. What are you going to do about it?

Murder is a criminal deed. We have procedures to deal with that. Unless you are in favor of allowing your local PD to start water boarding.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: mr1precision On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:45 pm

jpete wrote:
coaledsweat wrote:
jpete wrote:If you have a guy strapped to a 2 x 4, maybe you have the right guy, maybe you don't. And if you don't, no amount of "interrogation" will provide actionable intel.


When the guy brags to you he cut a Jew's head off on video, you can be sure you have the right guy.


I killed Jimmy Hoffa. What are you going to do about it?

Murder is a criminal deed. We have procedures to deal with that. Unless you are in favor of allowing your local PD to start water boarding.


Ummmm ya lost me there....... :alone:
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:52 pm

mr1precision wrote:
Ummmm ya lost me there....... :alone:


Cutting a persons head off, no matter how gruesome, is murder. We don't send gang bangers who killed 3 children while doing a driveby down to GitMo so to make the argument that we were some how justified in water boarding a guy because he "bragged" that he cut someone's head off doesn't fly with me.

And I can brag about something like killing Jimmy Hoffa, but shouldn't we have some proof before we inflict the punishment?

I know GWB was no fan of habeus corpus, but I am.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: spc On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:57 pm

Transcript: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed confesses 9/11 role

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/14/guanta ... index.html
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:10 pm

spc wrote:Transcript: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed confesses 9/11 role

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/14/guanta ... index.html


OK. Now what? Do we have any intention of prosecuting him?
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: mr1precision On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:53 pm

jpete wrote:
mr1precision wrote:
Ummmm ya lost me there....... :alone:


Cutting a persons head off, no matter how gruesome, is murder. We don't send gang bangers who killed 3 children while doing a driveby down to GitMo so to make the argument that we were some how justified in water boarding a guy because he "bragged" that he cut someone's head off doesn't fly with me.

And I can brag about something like killing Jimmy Hoffa, but shouldn't we have some proof before we inflict the punishment?

I know GWB was no fan of habeus corpus, but I am.


I'm not a lawyer(thank god) but doesnt habeus corpus apply to citizens of the USA? And prisoners of war fall under the Geneva convention?

I wonder if in WWII they worried about this stuff. If they did we'd be speaking German or Japanese.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: brckwlt On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:56 pm

Here is the proof congress knew about the torture.

Beginning in 2002, Nancy Pelosi and other key Democrats (as well as Republicans) on the House and Senate Intelligence Committees were thoroughly, and repeatedly, briefed on the CIA's covert antiterror interrogation programs. They did nothing to stop such activities, when they weren't fully sanctioning them. If they now decide the tactics they heard about then amount to abuse, then by their own logic they themselves are complicit.


http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 4870255997

and more proof http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2009/04/ ... about.html

Its obvious they knew and they knew the whole time. Regardless of what they might tell us in interviews they know what needs to be done to keep the country safe. Thats why none of them ever spoke up about it while bush was in office.

But now that obama is in office they can try and get back at the horrible republicans for keeping the country safe. The Democrats are such hypocrites. All they do is lie to us on a daily basis and most americans believe every word of it.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:00 pm

Two things to consider here:

1. Waterboarding "became" torture in 2004 whereas prior to that it was not considered torture and encouraged by both parties after 9/11.

2. Rendition is torture by "third party contractor" or "by proxy". Clinton signed an order for extraordinary renditions in 1995.

Now democrats want to smear Bush and the Republicans for the pure political joy of it. They only care about national security when it's politically expedient. They only care about torture when that too is politically expedient. I am sick of their visceral opportunism.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: brckwlt On: Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:24 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:Two things to consider here:

1. Waterboarding "became" torture in 2004 whereas prior to that it was not considered torture and encouraged by both parties after 9/11.

2. Rendition is torture by "third party contractor" or "by proxy". Clinton signed an order for extraordinary renditions in 1995.

Now democrats want to smear Bush and the Republicans for the pure political joy of it. They only care about national security when it's politically expedient. They only care about torture when that too is politically expedient. I am sick of their visceral opportunism.


So we should go after clinton when obama is out of office and prosecute him, and for good measure we will prosecute obama for his Apology 09 tour


and i see the sign of the beast

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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: spc On: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:49 am

jpete wrote:OK. Now what? Do we have any intention of prosecuting him?


Top 9/11 suspects to plead guilty.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7770856.stm

He wants to be martyred, grant him his wish.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: jpete On: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:32 am

mr1precision wrote:
jpete wrote:
mr1precision wrote:
Ummmm ya lost me there....... :alone:


Cutting a persons head off, no matter how gruesome, is murder. We don't send gang bangers who killed 3 children while doing a driveby down to GitMo so to make the argument that we were some how justified in water boarding a guy because he "bragged" that he cut someone's head off doesn't fly with me.

And I can brag about something like killing Jimmy Hoffa, but shouldn't we have some proof before we inflict the punishment?

I know GWB was no fan of habeus corpus, but I am.


I'm not a lawyer(thank god) but doesnt habeus corpus apply to citizens of the USA? And prisoners of war fall under the Geneva convention?

I wonder if in WWII they worried about this stuff. If they did we'd be speaking German or Japanese.

Habeus corpus is a "Natual Law" which means it applies to everyone everywhere. "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights..." THAT is the sentence that made the USA into "a shining city on a hill" and that is the sentence that GWB and those who agree with him wish to ignore. Without that sentence, how are we different than Saddam? And it's funny that you mention the Geneva Convention. GWB claimed his prisoners were "enemy combatants" thus they had no protection under it. Nice little end run I think. But do we really want to be the country that thinks of the most clever way to squirm away from our alleged morals?
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: samhill On: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:40 am

I don`t really care what they do to the scum prisoners including the good old U.S. prisons where they have rights even if they took anothers rights away. Its the fact that they lie about it & let what they consider to be lowly commoners to take the blame & be punished for following orders. Anyone thats been in the service knows that you don`t disobay a lawful order or do anything on your own without first getting permission.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: bhorenstein On: Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:26 pm

Cheney is doing Bush and himself no favor by crying for those docs to be released. He's bluffing, thinking that they won't be released and he'll look justified in the absence of corroborating classified documents. Cheney and Bush had the opportunity to declassify all those docs but, chose not to. "Now", Mr. Secretive wants them released. Mr. Cheney should be careful what he wishes for. (what Mr. Cheney is banking on is that President Obama will not call his bluff, because if he does release all the documents, the Republicans will then simply pounce on him for undermining U.S. security for strictly political purposes...by releasing classified materials) Mr. Cheney is the consummate Washington D.C. political infighter, but he's in trouble now....and knows it!

I suspect Obama is allowing the public outcries of this torture issue to drive his, and Holder's, actions to go after the real guilty parties, just as he always wanted to. How many of them get nailed I can't say. Politics is not easy to predict. But, some of them are definitely going to jail.

I predict that Obama will pardon all those pawns convicted in the Abu Ghraib scandal. Those cowards in the white house allowed those soldiers to take the fall for their decisions. They were silent when those "few bad apples" were charged with crimes when they were following Bush's orders. If the CIA, who was instructing those pawns, can get off the hook then they should too. What BushCo allowed to happen to those soldiers should outrage every vet. But, some allow party partisanship to trump what is right and wrong.

As Toby Keith sang, "There's no right way to do the wrong thing".
bhorenstein