CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: sterling40man On: Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:26 pm

Richard S. wrote:if that means making someone feel like they are drowning *censored* 'em and hand me the water.


NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: BillMarti On: Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:31 pm

jpete,

It was not the"Christians" that murdered none "Christians" during the crusades check your history it was specifically the catholic church and only the catholic church that was involved in this torture and genocide. If you remember the pope even publicly apologized for it a bout a year or 2 ago. As much as I would like to agree to torture it's not anywhere in the bible and as a matter of fact it says to treat prisoners well but it also says to put a murderer to death by 2 or more agreeing witnesses and their stories must be in complete agreement. If we seek out these murderers and publicly execute them after a fair trial I think we see a lot less terrorism and then keep all resources on this problem then they'll know were not playing around anymore but we very rarely execute those that deserve it.
Anybody that thinks true islam is a kind religion go over to the islam nations and try to practice any other religion and YOU WILL BE MURDERED and nothing will be done about it. I think a few well placed H bombs over there will stop much of the terrorism around the world because they're resources will become very limited. Whether or not we're a "Christian Nation" we have a right to protect and defend ourselves WAR IS WAR we have a right to kill those who chose to murder us.

Bill S.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:42 pm

Richard S. wrote:
ErikLaurence wrote:The only real threat of terrorism to the US is our overreaction to it.


I think underreaction is the threat, since the 70's these acts have been increasing in both quantity and magnitude. Yes "only" 3,000 died however that number was greatly offset by those that escaped because of the excellent response by emergency personnel some of whom are no longer with us and a orderly evacuation after the the planes hit. Imagine the carnage if both towers fell when the planes hit? It could have been much, much worse.

On a typical weekday 50,000 people worked in the towers[76] with another 200,000 passing through as visitors.


So if both collapsed on impact how many dead? 50k? 100k?

Do we sit here and wait for the next bigger and larger attack or do something about it? This is not the end of it, either we try and put a stop to it and hope we do enough to prevent it and if that means making someone feel like they are drowning *censored* 'em and hand me the water.


You just don't get it do you.

What was the strategic goal of the September 11th attacks from UBL's perspective?

What was he trying to accomplish?

The goal of terrorism, the entire operating mechanism behind why terrorism works is the disproportional response.

The goal of 9/11 was not to take down the WTC, the goal was not to kill American civilians (although doing both of those were fine byproducts from his perspective). The goal of 9/11 was a US ground invasion of Afghanistan. The goal was to drag the US into the meat grinder that chewed up the Soviets for 10 years before they gave up.

The invasion of Iraq was the cherry on top. A second US force on the ground in the mid east AND UBL has his greatest enemy in the region, Saddam Hussein taken out, the most powerful secular leader in the region.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: mr1precision On: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:47 am

Richard S. wrote:
ErikLaurence wrote:The only real threat of terrorism to the US is our overreaction to it.


I think underreaction is the threat, since the 70's these acts have been increasing in both quantity and magnitude. Yes "only" 3,000 died however that number was greatly offset by those that escaped because of the excellent response by emergency personnel some of whom are no longer with us and a orderly evacuation after the the planes hit. Imagine the carnage if both towers fell when the planes hit? It could have been much, much worse.

On a typical weekday 50,000 people worked in the towers[76] with another 200,000 passing through as visitors.


So if both collapsed on impact how many dead? 50k? 100k?

Do we sit here and wait for the next bigger and larger attack or do something about it? This is not the end of it, either we try and put a stop to it and hope we do enough to prevent it and if that means making someone feel like they are drowning *censored* 'em and hand me the water.

Meanie! :P
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:51 am

ErikLaurence wrote:
What was the strategic goal of the September 11th attacks from UBL's perspective?


So your assumption is now that we are in Afghanistan they have no more plans to attack people within the U.S.?

Having said that if the attacks were to entice Western armies into Afghanistan how do you explain the London and Spanish bombings when they were already had troops in the Middle East?
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:37 am

BillMarti wrote:jpete,

It was not the"Christians" that murdered none "Christians" during the crusades check your history it was specifically the catholic church and only the catholic church that was involved in this torture and genocide. If you remember the pope even publicly apologized for it a bout a year or 2 ago. As much as I would like to agree to torture it's not anywhere in the bible and as a matter of fact it says to treat prisoners well but it also says to put a murderer to death by 2 or more agreeing witnesses and their stories must be in complete agreement. If we seek out these murderers and publicly execute them after a fair trial I think we see a lot less terrorism and then keep all resources on this problem then they'll know were not playing around anymore but we very rarely execute those that deserve it.
Anybody that thinks true islam is a kind religion go over to the islam nations and try to practice any other religion and YOU WILL BE MURDERED and nothing will be done about it. I think a few well placed H bombs over there will stop much of the terrorism around the world because they're resources will become very limited. Whether or not we're a "Christian Nation" we have a right to protect and defend ourselves WAR IS WAR we have a right to kill those who chose to murder us.

Bill S.


Great, so if we take your advice, the USA and the Taliban will be roughly equal. I'm not sure we're ready for that just yet.

And again, this isn't a war. You can't have a war on some ephemeral idea. You have a war on a country. Things like "the war on drugs", the "war on poverty" and "the war on terror" are foolish from the word go. You spend a lot of money and a lot of time and a lot of lives and the only thing you get is more of what you declared war on to begin with.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: RMA On: Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:07 am

WHAT THE HELL IS AN "EPHEMERAL IDEA"???


As you say:
"And again, this isn't a war. You can't have a war on some ephemeral idea. You have a war on a country. Things like "the war on drugs", the "war on poverty" and "the war on terror" are foolish from the word go. You spend a lot of money and a lot of time and a lot of lives and the only thing you get is more of what you declared war on to begin with."
Jeff


This a WAR...Not one that we have had to fight before...The world has changed...GET WITH THE PROGRAM...


Bob
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:47 am

RMA wrote:WHAT THE HELL IS AN "EPHEMERAL IDEA"???


As you say:
"And again, this isn't a war. You can't have a war on some ephemeral idea. You have a war on a country. Things like "the war on drugs", the "war on poverty" and "the war on terror" are foolish from the word go. You spend a lot of money and a lot of time and a lot of lives and the only thing you get is more of what you declared war on to begin with."
Jeff


This a WAR...Not one that we have had to fight before...The world has changed...GET WITH THE PROGRAM...


Bob


If it's a war, how do we win? Japan and Germany signed letters of surrender. Who signs the letter of surrender in the "Global War on Terror"?

"Terror" is a tactic, not an enemy. The world HASN'T changed. You've drunk the Kool-Aid and now you think it has.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:34 pm

Is the mud slinging really necessary?
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: BillMarti On: Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:13 pm

The world is at WAR with islam by their choice and their belief they declared a jihad years ago on all none believers. The so called "innocents" hide and protect them and this again is a choice. There is no excuse for this it is plain and simple murder and it should be dealt with as so and when found guilty should receive an immediate forfeit of the murders life. We need to stop letting the useless international laws from having any effect on our laws and actions because we did not attack or assault them in any way. When there are consequences for for your wrongful actions such as restitution in full and a life for a life crime will drop drastically but will never be stopped because some people are just plain evil by choice. An example I believe would work in a very short time is if you "know" there is a cell in a village and they won't give them up then I would evacuate the village spray down the mosque with pigs blood let it stand and level the village.
Now I know that offends some people but remember no "innocents" were killed the arms caches are buried "the cell" is eliminated and we're pretty good at rebuilding the "European Cities" as we've done twice. They're killing our men with no consequences they thumb their noses every day by these murders. So if you think this will go away by "treaties" or "give them what they want" look whats going on in Israel the Palestinians didn't exist 50 years ago but Israel existed for 1000's of years but the Palestinians demand Israel to turn their state over to them and promise to murder all of them by right of jihad. Now that begs another are we going to give our country back to the natives-Indians I think not so why should any other country relent to terrorism.

Bill S.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:28 pm

What are UBL's goals? How did he go from a US backed ally in the 80s to an enemy in the 90s?

Well he tells us.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/i ... _1996.html

His main real goal is the fall of the House of Saud. He was personally slighted by them in 1991. He offered his mujahadeen who had beaten the Sovs to defend the kingdom from Iraq after Saddam took Kuwait. The Saudi's spurned UBL and invited infidels in to defend them. If we had kept our nose out of the Iraq/Kuwait war the twin towers would still be standing today.

They don't "hate us for our freedom". They have very clear, very public strategic goals.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:02 pm

BillMarti wrote:The world is at WAR with islam by their choice and their belief they declared a jihad years ago on all none believers. The so called "innocents" hide and protect them and this again is a choice. There is no excuse for this it is plain and simple murder and it should be dealt with as so and when found guilty should receive an immediate forfeit of the murders life. We need to stop letting the useless international laws from having any effect on our laws and actions because we did not attack or assault them in any way. When there are consequences for for your wrongful actions such as restitution in full and a life for a life crime will drop drastically but will never be stopped because some people are just plain evil by choice. An example I believe would work in a very short time is if you "know" there is a cell in a village and they won't give them up then I would evacuate the village spray down the mosque with pigs blood let it stand and level the village.
Now I know that offends some people but remember no "innocents" were killed the arms caches are buried "the cell" is eliminated and we're pretty good at rebuilding the "European Cities" as we've done twice. They're killing our men with no consequences they thumb their noses every day by these murders. So if you think this will go away by "treaties" or "give them what they want" look whats going on in Israel the Palestinians didn't exist 50 years ago but Israel existed for 1000's of years but the Palestinians demand Israel to turn their state over to them and promise to murder all of them by right of jihad. Now that begs another are we going to give our country back to the natives-Indians I think not so why should any other country relent to terrorism.

Bill S.


Look, fine. We'll do things your way and just like Russia, in less than 10 years we'll be bankrupt and a 3rd world country. Is saving the country worth so much that you'd destroy to country to do it?
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: spc On: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:39 pm

A little perspective.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... amera.html

And this is mild for them, like playing a paint ball game.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:47 pm

spc wrote:A little perspective.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... amera.html

And this is mild for them, like playing a paint ball game.


Don't want to live under Taliban law? Either move or pick up a weapon and shoot them first. If you aren't willing or able to do that, then I suggest not committing adultery.

How is this different than all the people GWB had executed when he was governor?

Should Canada invade us because we execute prisoners and they don't?
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:11 pm

Wow, this thread has officially gone of the rails........Crazy Train.
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