CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: BillMarti On: Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:14 pm

jpete


Should Canada invade us because we execute prisoners and they don't?[/quote]

If you follow the news the Canada court system allowed a 12 year old to sue her father because he grounded her. They have a hate crime law in effect and have prosecuted fined and put several pastors in prison. The more we don't punish criminals by the treating them like kings in happy land because "they're human too"
the worse crimes they commit against society what do they care if they go back to prison our tax dollars treat them as kings again. Also another fact is 99% of rapists and murderers that are released from prison commit the same crime again within 2 weeks of release. So tell us how do you propose how these terrorist atrocities be handled. Besides Canada doesn't have the gonads to do that they almost lost Nova Scotia and they did lose Alaska. Socialism is wonderful isn't it?
Look where we're heading!!!! Don't you get it it's not a good thing.

Bill S.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:45 pm

BillMarti wrote:jpete


Should Canada invade us because we execute prisoners and they don't?

If you follow the news the Canada court system allowed a 12 year old to sue her father because he grounded her. They have a hate crime law in effect and have prosecuted fined and put several pastors in prison. The more we don't punish criminals by the treating them like kings in happy land because "they're human too"
the worse crimes they commit against society what do they care if they go back to prison our tax dollars treat them as kings again. Also another fact is 99% of rapists and murderers that are released from prison commit the same crime again within 2 weeks of release. So tell us how do you propose how these terrorist atrocities be handled. Besides Canada doesn't have the gonads to do that they almost lost Nova Scotia and they did lose Alaska. Socialism is wonderful isn't it?
Look where we're heading!!!! Don't you get it it's not a good thing.

Bill S.


This isn't about socialism. spc posted a story about the Taliban and implied how "evil" they were. I took it as him saying we were "justified" in the GWOT because the Taliban/AQ are evil. If that's not what you meant spc, then I apologize.

So, if executing some one for breaking the law, and Sharia law is the law over there, then are WE evil for executing someone for breaking the law?

And if so, would some other country be "justified" in attacking us because we are "evil"?

This is where we get the "arrogant American" reputation because we do things to other people that we would cry about if they did it to us.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: BillMarti On: Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:36 pm

Jeff

No thats not what I was getting at they the" taliban" execute people indiscriminately they follow whatever they feel is right"situational ethics".T hey murder you for being a christian,for running away to get married as was on the news recently,murder there wives for disobedience but I never seen them convict one of there own for any reason. Our laws have worked for about 250 years until we got the liberals and lobbyists in there circumventing our freedoms and laws because the criminals now have more rights than a normal citizen. If you enact terrorism "murdering innocent people" on a country then you declared war then you should be judged and sentenced by that country not international law which is a joke. We're in Iraq abiding by their laws and they in turn murder us and you think this is fair. Can you show anyone given the death penalty by Bush didn't deserve it or do you just think the death penalty is plain unfair? Should we just let these know murders go free to continue their jihad? Would you let them be your neighbor? Would you be willing to give them life in prison for cutting a family's head off and converting more people in the prisons to believe and continue their jihad on others? Just consider the consequences of allowing somebody free that has murdered and tells you he will continue doing this. They released just enough of these documents to make you feel sorry for these known murderers when in fact that's exactly what they are and will not change for any reason. The "messiah" said he would take care of this problem and as usual had no plan on how to do it so now he does this and it blew up in his face poor Nancy is tap dancing all over the place because she will be one of those prosecuted by her own people talk about shooting yourself in the foot. All I have to say is GO BO GO BO GO BO hows that teleprompter working now.

Bill S.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: spc On: Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:54 pm

jpete wrote:spc posted a story about the Taliban and implied how "evil" they were. I took it as him saying we were "justified" in the GWOT because the Taliban/AQ are evil.
Yes, thank you.

Pakistan soccer ball bomb kills 12 children.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/p ... e-1.363408

Some here have a pre 9/11 mentality. On 9/12 would you have apposed water boarding? Be honest.
Last edited by spc on Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:56 pm

spc wrote:A little perspective.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... amera.html

And this is mild for them, like playing a paint ball game.


What does the internal situation in in the tribal regions of Pakistan have to do with the price of tea in China?

A little more perspective... Our friends the Saudis execute people for lots of stuff including:

* Adultery
* Sexual misconduct
* Apostasy
* Blasphemy
* Homosexuality
* Prostitution
* Witchcraft
* Idolatry
* Fornication

We sent US troops to die to defend Saudi Arabia.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: spc On: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:26 pm

And even more perspective:

    The first WTC bombing.
    The Cole bombing.
    Cobar Towers bombings.
    London bombings.
    Madrid bombings.
    Bali Nightclub bombing.
    British Consulate and HSBC Bank bombings.
    US Embassies bombings.
    9/11 WTC, Pentagon Skyjacking.

More here.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/ ... da-ops.htm

And some you wouldn't authorize water boarding to gain intellegence on future attacks.
The enemy is laughing at us.
Last edited by spc on Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:42 pm

spc wrote:And even more perspective:

    The first WTC bombing.
    The Cole bombing.
    Cobar Towers bombings.
    London bombings.
    Madrid bombings.
    Bali Nightclub bombing.
    British Consulate and HSBC Bank bombings.
    US Embassies bombings.
    9/11 WTC, Pentagon Skyjacking.

More here.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/ ... da-ops.htm


Yeah, but that wasn't your original point.

Your point was that because some unidentified people in a video shot in Pakistan murdered some people it should have some bearing on American foreign policy.

My point is that our friends do some of the same things.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: spc On: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:51 pm

ErikLaurence wrote:Yeah, but that wasn't your original point.

Your point was that because some unidentified people in a video shot in Pakistan murdered some people it should have some bearing on American foreign policy.


CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:59 pm

spc wrote:
ErikLaurence wrote:Yeah, but that wasn't your original point.

Your point was that because some unidentified people in a video shot in Pakistan murdered some people it should have some bearing on American foreign policy.


CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents


There have always been bad people in the world. There always will be.

There are lots of countries with evil people in them. Many of them are our partners. We buy oil from the Saudi' and sell them ams. We buy everything from the Chinese. They paid for the war in Iraq. Practice the wrong religion in China and you can end up in prison and be tortured (often to death).

Are you suggesting we go to war with all of them too?
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:02 pm

BillMarti wrote:Jeff

No thats not what I was getting at they the" taliban" execute people indiscriminately they follow whatever they feel is right"situational ethics".T hey murder you for being a christian,for running away to get married as was on the news recently,murder there wives for disobedience but I never seen them convict one of there own for any reason. Our laws have worked for about 250 years until we got the liberals and lobbyists in there circumventing our freedoms and laws because the criminals now have more rights than a normal citizen. If you enact terrorism "murdering innocent people" on a country then you declared war then you should be judged and sentenced by that country not international law which is a joke. We're in Iraq abiding by their laws and they in turn murder us and you think this is fair. Can you show anyone given the death penalty by Bush didn't deserve it or do you just think the death penalty is plain unfair? Should we just let these know murders go free to continue their jihad? Would you let them be your neighbor? Would you be willing to give them life in prison for cutting a family's head off and converting more people in the prisons to believe and continue their jihad on others? Just consider the consequences of allowing somebody free that has murdered and tells you he will continue doing this. They released just enough of these documents to make you feel sorry for these known murderers when in fact that's exactly what they are and will not change for any reason. The "messiah" said he would take care of this problem and as usual had no plan on how to do it so now he does this and it blew up in his face poor Nancy is tap dancing all over the place because she will be one of those prosecuted by her own people talk about shooting yourself in the foot. All I have to say is GO BO GO BO GO BO hows that teleprompter working now.

Bill S.


So you fight situational ethics with situational ethics? Because that's what you are proposing.

Water boarding is OK as long as you think you'll get actionable intel.

I don't feel sorry for known murderers. If you can show me where they murdered someone. That's more of your situational ethics. Because I know you'd like to confront your accusers and see the evidence against you but have no problem denying anyone else of the same.

And for the record, I used to be in favor of the death penalty. But over the years, I've seen too many cases of corrupt prosecutors who withhold and suppress evidence in order to save face in a case they were about to lose. I don't think the state should have that power over the people. Therefore, I am against capital punishment.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: spc On: Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:16 pm

Three enemy combatants have been waterboarded. WOW

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2 ... ive-only-/

Specifically mentioned on a list of potential targets found on Yousef's laptop: The World Trade Center and Pentagon.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/987075/posts

U.S officials report that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the man believed to be the mastermind behind the
9/11 attacks, is in American hands and so are his cell phones and laptop computer.

<removed dead link>

Think there was anything on those computers for the CIA to suspect these guys knew something?
Last edited by Richard S. on Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: <removed dead link>
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: BillMarti On: Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:07 am

Jeff,

Go back and read my prior post on torture and capital punishment. I never said I agree with "situational ethics" our government uses read my prior post about our corrupt government.Our laws were good up until about 50 or so years ago.

Bill S.
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: bhorenstein On: Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:20 am

I guess my thinking can be summed up in a few points:

You can't change what torture is by simply renaming it. (I think most reasonable people would consider locking someone in a small box & dumping insects in there would be considered torture)

The effectiveness of using torture to gain reliable information is debatable at best.

Can we justify using torture by simply pointing out how barbaric our enemy is?

This torture is being applied to people merely suspected of being terrorists. Suppose we are wrong?

Even if torture's effectiveness was proven (which it isn't) & even if we were SURE that the prisoner was guilty (which we never are) how would our use of state sponsored torture ( in ANY case) make us better than Nazi's?
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:29 pm

Just look what is going on, read the whole thing.

http://www.newsmax.com/kessler/obama_cia/2009/04/27/207740.html
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


In contrast, the CIA’s coercive interrogations were focused, approved by members of Congress, and successful. During initial interrogations, Abu Zubaydah was reluctant to give up individuals who were close to him. After he was waterboarded — which is inflicted on our own special forces during training — he gave up Ramzi bin al-Shibh, a member of Osama bin Laden’s inner circle. In turn, that led to the capture of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the architect of the 9/11 plot, and the uncovering of a plot to target the West Coast in a second wave of attacks


So we torture our own troops but can't do it to terrorists?
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Re: CIA (obama admin) Leaks Only Certain Torture Documents

PostBy: spc On: Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:51 pm

A reminder of the enemy's objective.

http://www.tangle.com/view_video.php?vi ... 9686b&sp=1
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