Keystoker Koker 160 Furnance Advice

Keystoker Koker 160 Furnance Advice

PostBy: WNY On: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:15 am

Anyone using a Koker (160K BTU) Furnance.?? How big of house do you heat? Usage? That is about the smallest footprint Forced Air unit I can find that will FIT down thru the steps/door into the basement. (very narrow and concrete!!)

Attached is the new house setup (approx. 2500 sq. ft) with a natural gas "Convection" floor furnance. It has 2 Very large cold air returns as shown. There is NO blower. I wanted to put the Koker unit right next to it, basically where the cold air return is and adapt into the square plenum up to the living room. And the chimney is accessible easily as shown. (I called and the Current Gas budget is $140/month, let's see $140 x 12 - $1680, that will buy alot of coal!)

I may even reverse the cold air return for hot air.

Only problem is getting heat to the 2nd floor. (there are a couple of ceiling/floor registers).

The smaller pipe will be removed (hot water tank) going to electric.

Comments?
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WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Keysoker Koker 160

PostBy: REDMAN On: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:49 pm

wny- I recently put the same furnace in the home I am remodling. It is a 3 story "double-block" home. In case you are wondering, a "double block" is one big house divided into 2 units, one unit on the left one on the right. Approx. sq. ft. is roughly 1,600 per unit. Each unit has 5 bed rooms. 3 BR on the 2nd floor, 2 BR on the 3rd. I am only heating one side right now, but I plan on heating both units with the koker in the near future. My coal useage might not be the best to go by, because I have the house completely gutted. But for what it's worth, I keep the thermostat at 62 and have been averaging 1 five gallon can a day on mild days & 2 five gallon cans a day on cooler days. I have only been running the furnace since early oct. After I insulate and sheet rock, I'll have a better idea about what to expect. I am very happy with the furnace and excited to see how it performs over this comming winter. Hope this was of some help to you, if you have any questions feel free to ask.
REDMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keysoker
Stove/Furnace Model: 90 Direct Vent

PostBy: LsFarm On: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:06 pm

Hi Dave, I don't see any problem with hooking into the heat system. You may want to take a look at where the cold air returns are in the rooms upstairs. The cold air returns often are not where you would want to have your heat to originate in a room.

Are you sure about going with electric domestic hot water?? If you have natural gas, I'd keep it, and add a coil in the furnace to preheat a tempering tank.

If you are going to go with electric, go with a tankless unit, expensive to buy but more effecient.

When is the move-in day??

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

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PostBy: WNY On: Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:28 am

Thanks! If I can get it to fit, I will put in the basement.

Redman - Can you measure the box itself without the blowers, doors, etc..Maxium Width/length. I will have to remove everything to try and get it downstairs. If it fits, I am getting one!! Your house sounds a bit larger, so I don't see a problem heating ours.

Actually, we switched our current hot water tank to electric with a timer, it is only on 4 hours a day (5am-9am), it stays quite hot for a long time, The electric went up less then the gas usage for the same time period. I did look into the tankless ones too, not sure yet. I may order the stove with the coil for future hot water.

Greg - Not sure on the move in date, but they just surveyed the property last Thursday, shoudln't be long now! (2-3 weeks?) We have some minor work to do before the BIG move, we don't have to get out of our current house anytime soon and the new house has been vacant for 6 months. really don't want to move in the middle of winter.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

PostBy: LsFarm On: Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:54 am

A move in the middle of winter is OK, but NOT in the middle of a snowstorm!!

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

PostBy: WNY On: Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:12 pm

Hmmm...

I may just keep the Keystoker and put it in the basement and cut a hole in the top to patch into my duct and get a bigger blower motor to move more air....worth trying....may have to run it hotter to keep the upstairs warmer.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

PostBy: REDMAN On: Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:17 pm

Dave - The box itself, not including the hopper or anything else is 49"high x 26"wide x 31"long.

How do you access your basement? Is there a door in the basement that leads to the outside or must you access your basement from inside the home?

Just wondering, because we have bilco doors that lead to our basement and the dealer didn't any problem getting the unit in. I can give you the size of our opening and maybe upload some pics of it, if you think that would be useful.
REDMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keysoker
Stove/Furnace Model: 90 Direct Vent

PostBy: LsFarm On: Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:39 pm

Hi Dave, I tried to find good detailed photos or drawings of your Keystoker 90 on the keystoker site, but no luck.

It may be a lot of work, but if you are good with sheet metal and ductwork, you could build a box around the keystoker 90, add some surface area to the box to help heat the air better, and duct it into the current system.

If you insulate the box you create, the heat will have to go into the ductwork, and not into the basement space You may need to add a blower to the box but they are very easy to find and cheap.

What are the dimensions of the Keystoker 90? probalby not that much smaller than the furnace box dimensions that REDMAN posted

Most HVAC places can bend up whatever box you want if you give them a detailed drawing.

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

PostBy: WNY On: Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:37 pm

Yes, the blower actually blows up the back and across the top of stove in a channel and out just above the door on the front.

I can cut a hole 8" in the top plate so the warm air can go up and block the front vent off and hook it directly into my existing plenum...I'll figure it out.

Thanks greg!
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

PostBy: WNY On: Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:08 pm

Here's my temp. solution instead of getting a new Koker unit, I am going to cut the top of the stove and add an 8" adapter (shown) and block off the front vent and hook it into the furnance duct in the new house. I am going to modify now and test it before we actually move, Then I can get it hooked right up and working.

If I have to, I will add an 8" in-line booster fan (500cfm) with my duct-stat thermostat to move the air more into the upstairs when needed....

I will post more pics as I go. !! :) Gonna be a tough cutting thru the steel!!
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WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:33 pm

Dave, just bring home a plasma cutter from work. You'll have it cut in about 5 minutes. :lol:

I know you know this, but make a template that you can run the torch around the edge of, so you can get a nice neat round hole. Trying to see and follow a line wearing welders goggles is tough!!

Good luck, Greg
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Success!

PostBy: WNY On: Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:01 am

How's this?

Success!! I bought a couple of good metal blades and took my time with the old jigsaw! Didn't even break the blade! Only took about 10-15 minutes. WOW! :) easier than I thought. Very Clean (Even with the stove running!!)

Now will be the test for airflow. So far so good! I will fab up a cover plate for the front vent to direct the air flow up thru the pipe.
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WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

PostBy: WNY On: Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:41 pm

:idea: Well, I found a different flange that fits better than my previous one, blocked off the front vent with a piece of square tubing I found in the garage and put an elbow on to see the air flow into the room...and....

With the stove about 50%-60% Burning and the side of the stove around 300 Degrees (Pic. #2), the blower output is 118 Degrees!! (pic#1) Man, this is kicking out the heat! !

I think it will work quite nicely in the new house setup....!!! :)

Then, in the new house, tie the input of the covection blower into the bottom of the furnance cold air return....
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WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

PostBy: davemich On: Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:39 am

Good 'ole yankee ingenuity!! Great work Dave and nice pics to see your progress! How did you block off the front vent?? Tubing?? Not sure I know what you mean by tubing. Keep us posted...Dave
davemich
 

PostBy: red ash On: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:26 pm

Dave, If you remove some of the collar extending down into the heat exchanger you should get a little more air flow. Remove the section facing the hopper and leave the vent side intact. The air will come up the back and hit the remaining front collar and deflect up the vent pipe. My 90 was ordered with a 6 inch convection cut and Keystoker did exactly as you did. They use a steel collar with the lip on the vent side(door side) extending down into the heat exchanger.
red ash
 

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