Obama sows seeds of demise

Oh No! Not the DOJ! You are really delusional. Thankfully, the folks who work at DOJ, NSA, FBI and the like are much more intelligent than you are and even if they have monitored this forum, would have quickly come to the conclusion that there is no threat here. But maybe if you ask them real nice they'll send you a junior G man badge so you can keep pretending there's something going on that only you, Super Stocking Full of *censored*, can stop. Loser.

Gentlemen, take the name calling to FSC. Don't come back to this forum until you grow up.

Sorry, two threads going today, only one in FSC. Apologize to anybody offended by the oversight.

coaledsweat why dont you move it to fsc

stockingfull wrote:Horse manure.

Dubya had a gigantic, um, "urge" to take down Saddam for plotting against his old man. So he had the deck stacked to invade Iraq, when neither Osama nor ANY of the 9/11 terrorists had come from there. With the combined results that we both broke and bought Iraq, and shot our int'l cred to hell in the process. COWMA. ("Coalition of the Willing, My Ass.")

And don't forget the epilogue: the other two members of Dubya's "Axis of Evil," Iran and N. Korea, have since that time openly marched toward development of nuclear capability without us so much as laying a velvet glove on them. And why not? When have we invaded a nuclear-capable nation? Now there's the Law of Unintended Consequences on exhibit for ya.

If a Democrat had so badly botched foreign policy, you wingnuts would burn him in effigy. Why, you'd probably call him ... Jimmy Carter!

GWB's "giant urge" was shared by no less than twelve TOP DEMOCRATS in the fantastic video supplied by Coalkirk.

Apparently you think the US should be fighting a four front war? NK is a problem because of China's support. Iran is a problem because of Russia's support. Both nations are extremely closed. Accurate intelligence is difficult to gather; we learned that the hard way in Iraq even with the help of Israel, Britain, Saudi and Kuwait. Yet you still think we should have forged ahead with four wars at once?

We took on the country that posed the greatest threat to our security--global oil security, make no mistake about it. It was unfinished business. Now we are moving on to the country that poses the second greatest threat--Pakistan. It's a nuclear tinder box. Afghanistan is just a base for us to seize the nukes from. Obama will carry this out with a flag pin on his lapel because he won't have a choice. Republicans will be in support because they are adults and still believe that dems and 'pubs have a common interest in US preeminence.

Democrats are jealous of GWB's success and they pulled out the stops in smearing him. They could never get over his victory, even when it was confirmed four years later. Face it. Dems are childish poor sports. They have been throwing a political temper tantrum for the last 8 years.

mikeandgerry wrote:

stockingfull wrote:Horse manure.

Dubya had a gigantic, um, "urge" to take down Saddam for plotting against his old man. So he had the deck stacked to invade Iraq, when neither Osama nor ANY of the 9/11 terrorists had come from there. With the combined results that we both broke and bought Iraq, and shot our int'l cred to hell in the process. COWMA. ("Coalition of the Willing, My Ass.")

And don't forget the epilogue: the other two members of Dubya's "Axis of Evil," Iran and N. Korea, have since that time openly marched toward development of nuclear capability without us so much as laying a velvet glove on them. And why not? When have we invaded a nuclear-capable nation? Now there's the Law of Unintended Consequences on exhibit for ya.

If a Democrat had so badly botched foreign policy, you wingnuts would burn him in effigy. Why, you'd probably call him ... Jimmy Carter!

GWB's "giant urge" was shared by no less than twelve TOP DEMOCRATS in the fantastic video supplied by Coalkirk.

Apparently you think the US should be fighting a four front war? NK is a problem because of China's support. Iran is a problem because of Russia's support. Both nations are extremely closed. Accurate intelligence is difficult to gather; we learned that the hard way in Iraq even with the help of Israel, Britain, Saudi and Kuwait. Yet you still think we should have forged ahead with four wars at once?

We took on the country that posed the greatest threat to our security--global oil security, make no mistake about it. It was unfinished business. Now we are moving on to the country that poses the second greatest threat--Pakistan. It's a nuclear tinder box. Afghanistan is just a base for us to seize the nukes from. Obama will carry this out with a flag pin on his lapel because he won't have a choice. Republicans will be in support because they are adults and still believe that dems and 'pubs have a common interest in US preeminence.

Democrats are jealous of GWB's success and they pulled out the stops in smearing him. They could never get over his victory, even when it was confirmed four years later. Face it. Dems are childish poor sports. They have been throwing a political temper tantrum for the last 8 years.

Wow Mike, you and I must have been watching two different wars. I know we tend to agree more then not but I can't disagree more.

I'll give you one thing, Mike: you've got one helluva imagination!

Democrats are the poor sports? It hurts when I laugh. Have you been reading the threads around here since last year? Obama's literally caused all you wingnuts to become unhinged!

And I must say I enjoy seeing you guys squirm under the law enforcement devices your heroes in the last Administration created.

Stockingfull,

Interesting that both you and coalkirk presented videos that had politicians of both parties saying that Saddam had WMD yet you only call the Republicans liars.

stockingfull wrote:I'll give you one thing, Mike: you've got one helluva imagination!

Democrats are the poor sports? It hurts when I laugh. Have you been reading the threads around here since last year? Obama's literally caused all you wingnuts to become unhinged!

And I must say I enjoy seeing you guys squirm under the law enforcement devices your heroes in the last Administration created.

I don't need an imagination, I've got the truth.

The truth? How "naive." Mike, politicians say lots of things. But when we go to war -- especially under the preemptive "Bush Doctrine" -- when we send our kids in to die for those words, they gotta be right.

Think about it: even after the USS COLE, there was no chance -- ZERO -- of getting Americans, to say nothing of the rest of the world, to go into Iraq until the psych job created after 9/11, which caused 70% of Americans to believe Iraq was responsible for 9/11.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-09-06-poll-iraq_x.htm

Now, how could Bill Clinton, or anybody else, have done that before 9/11 happened?

Um, impossible.

Watch the Hitler vid carefully; notice the similarities, then tell me again it wasn't a demagogue job worthy of Josef Goebbels.

stockingfull wrote:The truth? How "naive." Mike, politicians say lots of things. But when we go to war -- especially under the preemptive "Bush Doctrine" -- when we send our kids in to die for those words, they gotta be right.

Think about it: even after the USS COLE, there was no chance -- ZERO -- of getting Americans, to say nothing of the rest of the world, to go into Iraq until the psych job created after 9/11 which caused 70% of Americans to believe Iraq was responsible for 9/11.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-09-06-poll-iraq_x.htm

Now, how could Bill Clinton, or anybody else, have done that before 9/11 happened?

Um, impossible.

Watch the Hitler vid carefully; notice the similarities, then tell me again it wasn't a demagogue job worthy of Josef Goebbels.

We were right as rain to take out Saddam. We had the moral authority as a result of Gulf I.

The unintended consequences of two and a half decades of Hollywood and news images of muslim terrorists caused the public to believe that Saddam, Al qaeda, the Taliban and Hezbollah were all linked by the same ideology---radical Islamofascism. Americans know "the bad guys" when they see them, especially when the democrats, aka hollywood and Dems in Washington, tell them they are the bad guys. They had it confirmed when a war that the US didn't see to full fruition, puts them in the place of being taunted by their former defeated enemy. The had it re-confirmed when their nation is viscerally attacked killing thousands of innocents. The American people were not naive in understanding that virtually an entire culture would prefer them dead. They fully understand that for those of faith in Islam, borders are entirely irrelevent. Those borders were foisted upon them by westerners 70-100 years ago.

Our attacker's nation is Islam first and foremost. We are at war with about 40% of Islam, i.e. the radical fascist portion and its sympathizers.

Any comparison of Bush to Hitler is sophomoric. I would expect better of you than strawman arguments.

The American people would never have invaded Iraq had they not been duped into believing the non-existent 9/11 connection.

And there's only one political group that had the opportunity to do that.

QED, my friend.

Oh please. You are stretching GWB's ability to influence from the bully pulpit beyond all reason. The press never had anything good to say about him from the very beginning. They maligned his every word. Your party dominates the press. Your party controls hollywood. It has for decades. How does a man, maligned daily, influence a nation in ten second sound bites chosen only for his best flubs?

Listen to what YOUR side said about Saddam, about Islamofascists, about terrorism, about threats to the nation. Then consider what public opinion was like at the beginning and end of Gulf I . Then consider what it was like after 9-11. The bias against Islamofascism in all its forms was built in by your party and mine over three decades, with just cause. GWB is the only public figure to distiguish between islamofascists and the peaceful people of Islam in the mass media that I can rememer.

The public has recognized that terrorism and fascism is the enemy of this state in all its forms and has lumped those forms together for decades. If you don't believe me check out some old movies and some old news reports and listen again to your top leaders in your party. I give US citizens more credit in evaluating a threat. You seem to think they are idiots. The public knows that Islamofascists earned their reputations.

You'll need to work harder to prove your point that the war was capricious.

And while your at it, tell us all again how you anti-war protester types can find it in your hearts to "support the soldiers" this time around but chose to spit in their faces as they returned from Viet Nam.

mikeandgerry wrote:
We were right as rain to take out Saddam. We had the moral authority as a result of Gulf I.

The moral authority of Gulf War I? The first Gulf War had the legal authority of the UN. It had no moral authority.

Gulf War I was not a war about freedom. It was a war we fought at the behest of a tyranny (the Saudis) to put a king back on his throne in Kuwait. We were a hired gun for the Saudis.

Our founding fathers would be sickened that American soldiers died in support of a monarchy (both the one in Kuwait and the one in Saudi Arabia).



We won't even go into the fact that Kuwait was an invention of the British during the break up of the Ottoman empire after WW1 to control the deep water port at the mouth of the Euphrates river.

In the end, it was all about the oil. If Saddam was allowed to take and hold Kuwait, he could control the flow of oil in the gulf. Like it or not oil is the life blood of our country right now and will continue to be so for the forseeable future.
I'm done trying to reason with liberals. I've spent way too much time this weekend dualing with stockingfull. Libs are looking at life through some kind of filter or prism that must warp time and space. There is no connect with reality. If I said 1+1=2, he says lima beans. It's like arguing with someone who speaks a foreign langauge. I quit.