Superior Quality

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Re: Superior Quality

PostBy: Captain Michael On: Tue May 05, 2009 8:14 pm

Finished the test overnight on the volatiles.
Superior comes in at 91.66 carbon. Just for point of reference the local bituminous is usually 50-55 carbon.
I ask the question about the coal company in Mt Carmel thinking that if the ash was lower maybe a blend with Superior would make a good product.
Maybe its just not worth the effort. I've been hand firing this Superior for a couple years with no problems.
And as far as offending our friends next door with the smell of coal. Lots of folks are still burning coal aroud here for winter heat. And most of them never heard of anthracite.
Captain Michael
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Stoker 90

Re: Superior Quality

PostBy: efo141 On: Tue May 05, 2009 8:52 pm

Here's the specs Penn keystone posts on there web site.
Nut coal dry specs:

Moisture: 5.49% (as received)
Ash: 9.58%
Sulfur: .59%
BTU/lb: 13,451
BTU/lb: 14,876 (dry, ash-free)
Volatile Matter: 4.36%
Fixed Carbon: 95.17% (dry, ash-free)
Ash Fusion Temp: 2,700 F
Lbs sulfur per million BTU's: 0.44

Coal analysis report by GeoChemical Testing Somerset, PA
efo141
 
Stove/Furnace Make: New Yorker/Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: WC90-----/Kaa-2

Re: Superior Quality

PostBy: Ashcat On: Tue May 05, 2009 9:59 pm

Richard S. wrote:
Captain Michael wrote: I gotta say my lab guys where really fired up and curious to do this test but at the end of the day they we not that impressed. None of these guys had ever tested antracite before, I think they where expecting super coal.


Tell them to fire up a bit stoker in a high class neighborhood and see if the neighbors are impressed. :P

The BTU's of bituminous coal are typically the same or even higher. The difference of course between it and anthracite is the burning characteristics. Firstly you don't have the volatile matter and high sulfur content so your neighbors are not going to want kill you because you're belching black smoke and stinking the neighborhood up.

The second issue of course is the "clinkers", red ash like Superior is actually more like bit. coal in this regards where the ash will fuse together creating a large mass that can break a stoker mechanism or jam hand fired stoves especially if you fire it real hot. White ash won't do that under but apparently has a lower BTU....

Also, I bet a large percentage of the heat content of bit comes from the flammable volatiles, which would burn off quickly. Having little volatile gases, almost all of the heat content of anthracite comes from the oxidation of carbon, which allows a long, steady/controllable burn. How long of a burn time do the hand-fired bit burners here get? (I'll go to that forum and ask). In a stoker this shouldn't matter so much, but in a hand-fired, having biphasic burn characteristics (first the volatiles, then the carbon) would seem to be a negative relative to a monophasic burn with anthracite.
Ashcat
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 983
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Blaschak

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: Superior Quality

PostBy: Richard S. On: Tue May 05, 2009 10:14 pm

Ashcat wrote: How long of a burn time do the hand-fired bit burners here get?


If I remember correctly someone was able to get 40+ hours out a Harman set really low. I think they went away on Friday night an didn't get back until Sunday afternoon.

No idea what bit. does.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Superior Quality

PostBy: Berlin On: Tue May 05, 2009 10:28 pm

"Tell them to fire up a bit stoker in a high class neighborhood and see if the neighbors are impressed"

a bituminous stoker will produce little to no visable smoke or smell. no more smell than any anthracite stoker, even a substantial increase in sulfur will not produce a substantial increase in the "coal smell"
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: Superior Quality

PostBy: Richard S. On: Tue May 05, 2009 11:28 pm

Well Berlin I certainly don't have any experience with it myself but I can only draw on what has been posted here most of which says the smell and smoke from bit coal can be pretty bad. What I can tell you is the 25 years we've been burning anthracite in this house I might of smelled it a handful of times. All of which were on very warm and humid mornings and even then it was very feint. Probably would not be recognized by most people.. It of course has never smoked. The one guy moved in next door (e.g next door is about 15 feet way) and was there for 2 or 3 years before he even knew we used coal and he only figured it out when I asked if he wanted some ashes for his driveway and walks after a bad ice storm.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Superior Quality

PostBy: Captain Michael On: Wed May 06, 2009 12:15 am

Look guys this isn't anthracite vs. bituminous! In that war anthracite loses to the shear volume of bituminous. This nation was not built or powered by anthracite. Bituminius has always been the backbone of our nations energy needs. Industrial or electric generation. We have a nitch around here. Primarily NE Pa. We are sitting on this blessing of a deposit called anthracite. It works great for people up to maybe 300 miles from the deposit. After that it starts to become to expensive. People are not heating their homes with anthrcite in Texas or Montana. I'm willing to bet that people are drawing electricty from the grid in those states produced from bituminous! I can afford to buy the oil to heat my home. I don't want to. I began to read these forums and decided to participate. I have certainly learned a lot about anthracite. I drive 4 hrs. one way to buy coal from superior. I don't want you to think I'm some kind of a know it all, but I live in Western Pa. I work for one of the largest undrground coal miners in the USA. We mine bituminous coal. 68-70 million tons in 2008 85% was sold into the steam market to produce electricty. This is my bread and butter. My hands fit a # 2 coal shovel. I get a little ticked when some folks do not give the bitumious product any respect. The quality of anthracite coal is with out challange the best. The problem is not quality, it quantity. All of the US production of anthracite is just crumbs compared to bitumious. I'm greatful that we have them both. 1 for my electric lights and 1 to heat my bubble bath. Sorry about the rant
Captain Michael
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Stoker 90

Re: Superior Quality

PostBy: rockwood On: Wed May 06, 2009 1:02 am

Utah coal, including stoker coal, does smell and smoke but only brief times after loading or shortly after stoker kicks on. After volatiles calm down there's no smoke and little smell and you're right Richard, I also know from experience that many people don't recognize the smell as coal burning anyway. A lot of wood users produce much more smoke than soft coal, in fact some smoke heavily the entire time because they're not properly fired whereas coal won't. When most people think of burning soft coal they think of trains or steamships spewing out enormous clouds of smoke and this just isn't the case with home heating, even with some of the poorer quality soft coals.
Berlin is right about neighbors, in certain areas, using wood or soft coal (especially in a hand fed) could bring a lot of grief.
rockwood
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Stokermatic coal furnace
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Rockwood Stoveworks Circulator
Baseburners & Antiques: Malleable/Monarch Range
Coal Size/Type: Soft coal: Lump and stoker (slack coal)

Re: Superior Quality

PostBy: Richard S. On: Wed May 06, 2009 1:51 am

Captain Michael wrote:This nation was not built or powered by anthracite.


Actually at the turn of the century anthracite contributed significantly to industry until after WW2.

Peak production for Pennsylvania for Bit and anthracite coal combined was in 1918 with 277 million tons mined. Peak for anthracite alone was the previous year at nearly 100 million tons so yes it was a significant amount.

First Year of Documented Coal Production
Anthracite . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1820 (458 short tons).
Bituminous . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1840 (465,000 short tons)
Peak Year of Coal Production
Total . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1918 (277,377,000 short tons).
Anthracite . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1917 (99,612,000 short tons).
Bituminous . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1918 (178,551,000 short tons).

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/FTPROOT/coal/0576.pdf
Bituminous coal was first mined in Pennsylvania in 1760
near present-day Pittsburgh. By the mid-1800's, it was
widely used as a fuel for domestic use and the salt and
glass industries. The State's bituminous coal industry
grew with the development of the iron and steel industry
and the rising use of coal-fired steam power. Although
used by blacksmiths at Wilkes-Barre in 1769, anthracite
was not widely accepted as a fuel until the early 1800's,
when the problem of keeping it burning was solved by the
use of specially designed grates and stoves.

The development of canals, railroads, and river transportation
opened up markets for both bituminous coal
and anthracite. In 1918, output was a record 277 million
short tons, a level unequalled by any other State.


To put that 100 million tons of anthracite into perspective, Pennsylvania currently mines what looks like about 60 Million a year with anthracite making up about 3 or 4 million. Wyoming mined 200 million in 1990 and West Virgina did 150 million. So yes anthracite played a significant role during the industrial revolution. Western Bit coal supplied the steel mills in Pittsburgh while anthracite fueled the factories and other industries in New York, Philadelphia and other Eastern Cities. :)
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Superior Quality

PostBy: Berlin On: Wed May 06, 2009 3:42 am

I know you love your anthracite richard, but i love my bituminous :)

I'll be the first to admit there are situations where bituminous coal is not the best choice and anthracite works very well for a number of reasons, but bituminous coal catches a lot of grief due to unfortunate misconceptions. In a stoker bituminous coal is virtually as clean as anthracite with barely a trace of visable smoke after the stoker shuts off for a minuite or two.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: Superior Quality

PostBy: Yanche On: Wed May 06, 2009 9:22 am

I don't want to get in a debate Anthracite vs. Bituminous because they both have their place, both in history and current day use. But for residential heating use the number of appliances specifically designed and marketed for Anthracite coal exceed those for Bituminous. Are there new Bituminous stoker boilers sold? Yes, I'm aware of the EFM product specifically tested for a type of western bituminous. What I'm wondering are there off the shelf products with enough adjustments and/or options to burn all or most of the bituminous coal available?
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Superior Quality

PostBy: coal berner On: Wed May 06, 2009 11:06 am

Here is some more info on the to coal's in PA


http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/minres/bmr/annualreport/2008/table07_anthracite_historical.htm

http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/minres/bmr/annualreport/2008/table04_anthracite_underground.htm

http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/minres/bmr/annualreport/2008/table05_anthracite_surface.htm

http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/minres/bmr/annualreport/2008/table06_anthracite_refuse.htm

http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/minres/bmr/annualreport/2008/table14_bituminous_historical.htm

http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/minres/bmr/annualreport/2008/table11_bituminous_underground.htm

http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/minres/bmr/annualreport/2008/table12_bituminous_surface.htm

http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/minres/bmr/annualreport/2008/table13_bituminous_coal_refuse.htm
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: Superior Quality

PostBy: rockwood On: Wed May 06, 2009 11:20 am

I don't know about in the eastern US, but here in Utah there are a few bit/soft coal stoker dealers where you can get parts and reconditioned units.
Here is a link to one dealer that is a member of this forum.
http://www.stokerworx.com/
http://nepacrossroads.com/member/stokerworx/
If anyone would like information on more dealers in Utah, just PM me.
rockwood
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Stokermatic coal furnace
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Rockwood Stoveworks Circulator
Baseburners & Antiques: Malleable/Monarch Range
Coal Size/Type: Soft coal: Lump and stoker (slack coal)

Re: Superior Quality

PostBy: Freddy On: Wed May 06, 2009 1:05 pm

Record burns with a hand fired? My buddy that's using the Jamesway stove has been pushing it's limits to see just how long it might go. It only holds about 40 pounds of coal, but has auto damping, both air in and exhaust. He was easily going 24 hours so tried 36, then 48. The stove is in his basement, at this point he's just keeping the chill and dampness away. Two weeks ago he & his wife went on a mini vacation. They left Wednesday at 8PM. Before he left he filled it to the tippy top, couldn't fit in another pea. They returned Saturday at 6 PM, and it was NOT OUT!! Seventy hours. He said he shook it down...it took three empties of the ash pan, opened the air up and saved it! We have joked that the Jamesway is the incredi-stove, but know we know for sure!
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: Superior Quality

PostBy: Captain Michael On: Wed May 06, 2009 4:36 pm

Until I started reading this forum I was clueless about stokers. There is a local hardware store in town using a stoker with bituminous, but the whole time growing up folks used coal furnaces. It is still common in rural western Pa. and WV for people to use coal to heat there homes. With bituminous and not in a stoker. And Richard I will concede to your facts about the 1918 time frame, short lived and geographically limited. I still believe in the grand scheme of history bituminous was king!
Captain Michael
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Stoker 90

Visit Lehigh Anthracite