Chrysler finally filed...

Chrysler finally filed...

PostBy: billlindley On: Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:20 pm


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_chrysler
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


A sad day as Chrysler finally filed for bankruptcy. Even though the company will still exist in one sense it does show how bad things have become for American business and how every company is vulnerable to fail. Think 20-30 years out. How many rock solid companies do you think may not be around anymore? I still think GM will be next.

One thing I would like to get more insight to is how the UAW’s cost cutting moves are going to work. I personally feel the union was the biggest (not only) contributing factor to the demise of Detroit. Even those “smart” private equity guys got it wrong. A few Band-Aids won’t fix everything they have to have major reform to compete with the foreign automakers. Time will tell I guess.
billlindley
 
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Re: Chrysler finally filed...

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:27 pm

billlindley wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_chrysler

A sad day as Chrysler finally filed for bankruptcy. Even though the company will still exist in one sense it does show how bad things have become for American business and how every company is vulnerable to fail. Think 20-30 years out. How many rock solid companies do you think may not be around anymore? I still think GM will be next.

One thing I would like to get more insight to is how the UAW’s cost cutting moves are going to work. I personally feel the union was the biggest (not only) contributing factor to the demise of Detroit. Even those “smart” private equity guys got it wrong. A few Band-Aids won’t fix everything they have to have major reform to compete with the foreign automakers. Time will tell I guess.


Slow failures are usually attributable to multiple factors. The UAW hammered the auto industry for years, getting paid two and three times what Japanese makers were paying workers. The auto industry failed to respond to customer needs for years. They didn't respond to competition. The financing arms of the auto makers tried to make up for their inferior products by offering financing incentives. It increased their sales but also greatly increased their risk due to the leverage. Efforts to manage that risk employed untested derivative placements. Because Congress failed to regulate derivatives in 1998 when it had the chance, i.e. before they became huge factors in corporate and bank (off-balance sheet) financing arrangements, the risks became even greater (not less, as planned).

There's plenty of blame to go around. Pick a target and fire at will.
mikeandgerry
 
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Re: Chrysler finally filed...

PostBy: brckwlt On: Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:30 pm

billlindley wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_chrysler

A sad day as Chrysler finally filed for bankruptcy. Even though the company will still exist in one sense it does show how bad things have become for American business and how every company is vulnerable to fail. Think 20-30 years out. How many rock solid companies do you think may not be around anymore? I still think GM will be next.

One thing I would like to get more insight to is how the UAW’s cost cutting moves are going to work. I personally feel the union was the biggest (not only) contributing factor to the demise of Detroit. Even those “smart” private equity guys got it wrong. A few Band-Aids won’t fix everything they have to have major reform to compete with the foreign automakers. Time will tell I guess.


I really hate this. Now chrysler will be run by the govt. all they will produce will be smart cars, or super tiny cars no one wants but the govt says we all need to drive. I cant believe what i see everyday, govt running private businesses it should be a crime.

the union was definitely a big factor in their demise but dont forget obama was the second highest benefactor from union campaign contributions. Im sure the UAW will make out great through this process and the little man who works in the factory will be the one getting screwed. It is truly a sad day.
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Re: Chrysler finally filed...

PostBy: stockingfull On: Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:36 pm

1. Fix healthcare and level the int'l field.

2. The hedge-fund boyz were the only ones who wouldn't take a "haircut" voluntarily. Now they'll get one from a bankruptcy judge. They might not like it as well.

3. FIAT's been building much better metal than any of us remember from the old days. (I owned 2 in the 70's.) They've got competitive tech; in fact, they now own Ferrari. Be prepared to be impressed with what you see.
stockingfull
 
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Re: Chrysler finally filed...

PostBy: billlindley On: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:46 pm

brckwlt wrote:
billlindley wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_chrysler

A sad day as Chrysler finally filed for bankruptcy. Even though the company will still exist in one sense it does show how bad things have become for American business and how every company is vulnerable to fail. Think 20-30 years out. How many rock solid companies do you think may not be around anymore? I still think GM will be next.

One thing I would like to get more insight to is how the UAW’s cost cutting moves are going to work. I personally feel the union was the biggest (not only) contributing factor to the demise of Detroit. Even those “smart” private equity guys got it wrong. A few Band-Aids won’t fix everything they have to have major reform to compete with the foreign automakers. Time will tell I guess.


I really hate this. Now Chrysler will be run by the govt. all they will produce will be smart cars, or super tiny cars no one wants but the govt says we all need to drive. I cant believe what I see everyday, govt running private businesses it should be a crime.
.



As opposed to the big three making big cars no one really wanted? I don't like that government is swooping in to take over businesses either however if people were buying Chrysler's because they were making such great cars then we wouldn't be discussing this anyway.

Speaking of great cars I am driving my girlfriends 99 Toyota Tacoma with 104,000 miles on it today because for the second time in a year my 06' Dodge Magnum is in the shop getting repairs done. The 06 Magnum only has a tick over 30,000 miles and I have already had to replace tires (Car's wearing them quickly due to the weight). Today is it the two front tie rod's that failed (also contributed to needing new tires) along with some faulty wiring that is causing my break lights to intermittingly fail. Previously it was windshield washer chips failing, center console malfunction and a few other minor things. Not the great quality you would thin of. O and I have a few rattles in the interior of my 3 year old Dodge while the 10 year old 100K+ miles Toyota is rattle free.

I love my Magnum but it can’t compare to a Toyota in terms of quality.
billlindley
 
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Re: Chrysler finally filed...

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:12 pm

stockingfull wrote:1. Fix healthcare and level the int'l field.

2. The hedge-fund boyz were the only ones who wouldn't take a "haircut" voluntarily. Now they'll get one from a bankruptcy judge. They might not like it as well.

3. FIAT's been building much better metal than any of us remember from the old days. (I owned 2 in the 70's.) They've got competitive tech; in fact, they now own Ferrari. Be prepared to be impressed with what you see.




Fiat has problems of it's own. They have no market here without Chrysler, they won't have one with Chrysler.

Healthcare isn't broken. Coverage is broken. The current system gives us an edge we need. Full coverage will destroy buying power in our own markets.

There is no reason the hedgefund "boyz" should take a haircut voluntarily. They did their job by financing the dumbos running the company. Why should they give up any rights to capital voluntarily (you say it as if it's a virtue). They maintained the value system of capitalism by not caving in to marxist demands. If a judge orders such a measure in liquidation so be it, but most bond holders stand to make more from a liquidation than a reorganization. You know the heirarchy of liquidation: labor payroll, trade creditors, bond creditors, preferred stock then common stockholders. They did the industry a favor buying up the distressed crap bonds that no one wanted. They took the risk now Obama is going to screw them in a move from Chavez' playbook.

Obama's bullcrap for today from this article,
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090430/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_automakers
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
:

"No one should be confused about what a bankruptcy process means," Obama said. "This is not a sign of weakness but rather one more step on a clearly chartered path to Chrysler's revival."



What a giant lie. I am so sick of the rhetoric from this marxist clown. Bankruptcy is the ultimate weakness for a business. It means Chrysler can't manage its affairs. Obama should be a twelve step program leader, not a president.
mikeandgerry
 
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Re: Chrysler finally filed...

PostBy: stockingfull On: Fri May 01, 2009 1:27 am

You know, Mike, if it were Bush keeping Chrysler afloat instead of Obama, you'd be hailing it as a brilliant nat'l security move.

Which it is.
stockingfull
 
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Re: Chrysler finally filed...

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Fri May 01, 2009 1:28 am

stockingfull wrote:You know, Mike, if it were Bush keeping Chrysler afloat instead of Obama, you'd be hailing it as a brilliant nat'l security move.

Which it is.


Hell no. If it's a failure, it's a failure. I can't stand huge corporations. If they can't stand alone, they should fail. No welfare for business rats!

If they fail, it's better for Ford and GM.

If one of those fails, however, then the government will have to get involved. I can't stand monopolies, either.
mikeandgerry
 
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Re: Chrysler finally filed...

PostBy: stockingfull On: Fri May 01, 2009 1:34 am

Well, there are some industries worth saving, notwithstanding that their recent mgmt has sucked ass or their labor been out of control, or both.

And our auto industry is one such. That's why they should fix healthcare to level the field, give the unions a big stake in the survival of the enterprise, and have at it.
stockingfull
 
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Re: Chrysler finally filed...

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Fri May 01, 2009 1:46 am

stockingfull wrote:Well, there are some industries worth saving, notwithstanding that their recent mgmt has sucked ass or their labor been out of control, or both.

And our auto industry is one such. That's why they should fix healthcare to level the field, give the unions a big stake in the survival of the enterprise, and have at it.


If the company was dumb enough to over-promise benes to the unions then they unions can be dumb enough to accept controlling stock in a swap for first dibs on liquidation assets. It'll be a fitting end that will emphasize that dumb f'ing labor is a commodity priced only by supply and demand.

:rofl:
mikeandgerry
 
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Re: Chrysler finally filed...

PostBy: stockingfull On: Fri May 01, 2009 1:52 am

But stay tuned, Mike; it may not be the end....
stockingfull
 
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Re: Chrysler finally filed...

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Fri May 01, 2009 2:04 am

stockingfull wrote:But stay tuned, Mike; it may not be the end....


Oh it will be the end....of Chrysler as a for-profit company.

Indeed, have at it. Level all the playing fields. Pay labor the salary and benes you think it deserves. Fund it well with taxpayer funds. Protect it from all calamity foreign and domestic. Build what the left knows the people need. All will be well.

As soon as class clown Al Franken becomes the final vote required to lock in the liberal juggernaut, it's off to the races. Be anything, Do anthing you lefties want. And please....do it fast and furiously. Pass everything you want and don't hesitate or delay. Don't give the R's any quarter. Do it all and do it well.

You will have no obstacles before you. The Holy Grail is at your finger tips. The power to show the world your wisdom and vision is at hand. Rebuild all virtues and values in your own image. Be God himself. Blame me and George Bush for every failure. Take your credit for every success.

Eliminate all competition. Install the very best and the very brightest left wingers in all positions of leadership and judgment. Preside over the masses and serve their every need. Establish the perfect society where no one suffers. Correct the ills and suffering that God rained down on you so cruelly.

How fitting... Al Franken is the final key to your success. You won't need anyone or anything. Save the planet and run the world will be your only tasks.

You won't need Chrysler. Chrysler will need you. Isn't that what you want?
mikeandgerry
 
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Re: Chrysler finally filed...

PostBy: stockingfull On: Fri May 01, 2009 2:27 am

One of your best rants ever, Mike. Inspired, rhythmic, almost Gospel-like. :clap:

But what Obama has done is brilliant. He's challenging labor -- not unlike in an ESOP -- to rise above the old "labor vs. mgmt" adversary system and actually buy into the success of the company for the sake of their own survival.

And why not? Mgmt had run it into the ground, leaving labor with the last major stake in its survival. And, as a public policy matter, why shouldn't labor have the opportunity to save their jobs and retirement benes? If it can't work, then it'll be time to pack it up. But (and I've been saying this since last fall) fixing healthcare and getting those numbers (current and legacy) off the board is an essential piece of the puzzle.
stockingfull
 
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Re: Chrysler finally filed...

PostBy: samhill On: Fri May 01, 2009 7:53 am

Best thing that Chrysler can do, shouldn`t have waited this long. There has been too much greed & mismanagement both labor & co. The co. only gives in to labor demands if it thinks it can pay them, & its kind of hard not giving a cupcake when your taking a sheet cake for yourself. Their trucks were the only thing going up in quality except for them pushing the hemi engine as the car quality was going down, some nice looking junk.
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Re: Chrysler finally filed...

PostBy: stovepipemike On: Fri May 01, 2009 9:00 am

I just wonder if we are not allowing the fox [fiat] into the henhouse [chrysler].There is nothing more attractive than a asset plump failing car company to a foreign concern.There must be stop gaps installed to make certain that fiat does not syphon the last pint of blood out of the Chrysler pentastar and walk away.If Obama must have it,stitch their skin directly to it. Chrysler dies ,they die. Americans built that company and Americans should deal with it one way or the other! Thats how Mike sees it.
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