Obama announces plan to close tax loopholes*

Re: Obama announces plan to close tax loopholes*

PostBy: KLook On: Wed May 06, 2009 7:42 am

You dont get it. You cannot hire American workers becuase you have to pay them to much and coddle them and give them free health care and make sure you have a good cross section of society and let them not come to work for personal reasons and you cant fire them for any reason and they cant work to many hours and they have to have sensitivity and harrassment training and Osha will slap you for not providing a mythical perfect workplace. The environment we have created for the American workers is not conducive to productivity or proffitability for the business. Period.When you get a successfull business that does all this it is called a goverment program because they can lose money and claim otherwise.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Obama announces plan to close tax loopholes*

PostBy: Jeddbird On: Wed May 06, 2009 8:06 am

Sorry but I don't think the only model that works for free enterprise is one where your workers must be peasants or slaves like in Communist China in order to succeed or be profitable. Seems to me that we were the "Arsenal of Democracy" in WWII & that our workers are as good as any in the world, if not better. In the 1940 & 1950's, American factory workers got health care & good wages & could actually afford to buy the products they made, which were good quality products, not the crap that is all we can afford now even WITH all the "Protection Money" (tax incentives) we fork over to the large corporations so they won't "Hurt" us.
I have more respect for U.S. workers than you evidently do & feel that we can get back to making good products without turning our workforce back into slaves.
Jeddbird
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Dutchwest
Stove/Furnace Model: Federal

Re: Obama announces plan to close tax loopholes*

PostBy: samhill On: Wed May 06, 2009 8:33 am

Klook! I don`t know how you have been treated or expect others to be treated. I`m going to be 62 shortly, have worked dozens of jobs all my life both union & non. But I never found that place of employment where I got all the benifits that you describe, please let me know where some are. I might just consider re-locating to another country(beause I`m sure it s not in the U.S.) retirement is nice but I`ll go back into the workforce to be coddled with too much pay, free health care & everything else you describe. ( please PM me so that I can beat all the others to utopia)
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75


Re: Obama announces plan to close tax loopholes*

PostBy: tvb On: Wed May 06, 2009 12:03 pm

KLook wrote:You dont get it. You cannot hire American workers becuase you have to pay them to much and coddle them and give them free health care and make sure you have a good cross section of society and let them not come to work for personal reasons and you cant fire them for any reason and they cant work to many hours and they have to have sensitivity and harrassment training and Osha will slap you for not providing a mythical perfect workplace. The environment we have created for the American workers is not conducive to productivity or proffitability for the business. Period.When you get a successfull business that does all this it is called a goverment program because they can lose money and claim otherwise.

Kevin


Why do you hate America?
tvb
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing III

Re: Obama announces plan to close tax loopholes*

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Wed May 06, 2009 1:16 pm

American workers are the best in the world. But their status is shifting especially in manufacturing because their is little manufacturing work...it's just 10% of our economy.

We have the ability to do more manufacturing in the US but under several left wing governments the left has stifled growth insisting on the best-of-the-best for labor and the environment without regard for the global perspective. The developing world's governments recognize that difference as their competitive advantage so they don't push for higher wages and environmental protections. It enables them to build their wealth.

No one here "hates" America or its workers, but it is unrealistic to grant high pay and benefits to workers in a global market. Labor is a commodity, whether the left understands that or not. There is a global competitive marketplace for labor. Since worldwide labor supply outstrips labor demand, the price of labor should be low in the US. It is not.

The unions (which comically call themselves "international" or "worldwide") should be living up to their names and attempting to organize other nation's workforces. They should learn to export their product (but then again, they aren't talented managers, are they?). Their allegiance lies with the leftists, so why not make friends with Medvedev, Chavez or Hu to bring developing workers up to par with the western world? After all, isn't fair labor their ideological goal?

The answer, of course, is that competing oligopolies take turns running the world, both here and in foreign lands. It's a power struggle for influence. The unions in America can only control American labor because the government granted them that power.

We call China, Russia, and Venezuela communists and socialists, but the real socialism is right here in the good ole US of A.
mikeandgerry
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson Anthratube 130-M

Re: Obama announces plan to close tax loopholes*

PostBy: KLook On: Wed May 06, 2009 1:58 pm

I was going to reply to the liberal's questions, but Mike has it covered. Why don't one of you rose colored glasses people try running a business? Try hiring one good employee that does not think they deserve everything you have even though you have all the investment, risk, and reputation to lose.

Kevin

I don't hate my America, I hate your America. Admit it, you are socialist, you don't believe anyone should make "to much money" and it should be spread 'fairly"amongst the workers that have no risk or investment.
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Obama announces plan to close tax loopholes*

PostBy: Ashcat On: Wed May 06, 2009 2:08 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:American workers are the best in the world. But their status is shifting especially in manufacturing because their is little manufacturing work...it's just 10% of our economy.

We have the ability to do more manufacturing in the US but under several left wing governments the left has stifled growth insisting on the best-of-the-best for labor and the environment without regard for the global perspective.

Very well stated, mikeandgerry. In addition to high taxes in the US (apparently we have the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world), the cost of US regulatory compliance is huge, and is another factor contributing to the exodus.

The left hates capitalism and creates a legal/regulatory environment that discourages business, then complains when businesses reduce/stop operations in the US. Simplest thing in the world to understand, but if you point this out, all you get in return is scorn and ridicule. Never a real conversation that increases understanding, just venom.
Ashcat
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 983
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Blaschak

Re: Obama announces plan to close tax loopholes*

PostBy: tvb On: Wed May 06, 2009 2:11 pm

KLook wrote:I was going to reply to the liberal's questions, but Mike has it covered. Why don't one of you rose colored glasses people try running a business? Try hiring one good employee that does not think they deserve everything you have even though you have all the investment, risk, and reputation to lose.

Kevin

I don't hate my America, I hate your America. Admit it, you are socialist, you don't believe anyone should make "to much money" and it should be spread 'fairly"amongst the workers that have no risk or investment.


Do you not see the irony in the last sentence you wrote above and the original comment a couple posts above?
tvb
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing III

Re: Obama announces plan to close tax loopholes*

PostBy: Jeddbird On: Wed May 06, 2009 2:20 pm

So I take it that some of you are in favor of continuing U.S. government subsidies (in the form of tax breaks) to businesses who move offshore & give our jobs to foreigners & are against helping businesses provide jobs to Americans & who buy American products?

Is that really what you want?
Jeddbird
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Dutchwest
Stove/Furnace Model: Federal

Re: Obama announces plan to close tax loopholes*

PostBy: Ashcat On: Wed May 06, 2009 2:20 pm

tvb wrote:Do you not see the irony in the last sentence you wrote above and the original comment a couple posts above?

I'm a fan of delicious irony, but be specific, please--which "comment a couple posts above" are you referring to?
Ashcat
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 983
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Blaschak

Re: Obama announces plan to close tax loopholes*

PostBy: KLook On: Wed May 06, 2009 2:34 pm

Got me there?? I guess I went ahead and answered the question anyway. We cannot all be millionaires. The ones that work harder, inherit, or are just lucky deserve what they earn or inherit or win/get. You cannot regulate our companies into oblivion and call them greedy when the do what they must to survive. If all American companies just folded up and took their money and kept it where would we be? Face it, we need them to invest in our country but they are not going to if you continue to tax, litigate, and regulate them constantly.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Obama announces plan to close tax loopholes*

PostBy: Ashcat On: Wed May 06, 2009 2:46 pm

Jeddbird wrote:So I take it that some of you are in favor of continuing U.S. government subsidies (in the form of tax breaks) to businesses who move offshore & give our jobs to foreigners & are against helping businesses provide jobs to Americans & who buy American products?

Is that really what you want?

OUCH! Jeddbird, your logic is so twisted up that it must be painful for you. Let's take it step by step:
Jeddbird wrote:So I take it that some of you are in favor of continuing U.S. government subsidies (in the form of tax breaks) to businesses who move offshore

To my knowledge, the US Government doesn't provide subsidies (in the form of tax breaks, or otherwise) encouraging businesses to move more of their business offshore. The point is that US taxes are so onerous, that this gives them a way to minimize taxes. You blame the business for acting in its own self interest (as you would), rather than blame the government who sets the tax rates and who is therefore the cause of the business moving offshore.
Jeddbird wrote: ... give our jobs ...

You don't own the job--it's not an entitlement or a possession. If you are willing and able to do a job, and if there is an employer looking to have a job done that you can fill, then you have a job. But it's really not YOURS, because it depends equally on their being a viable employer.
Jeddbird wrote: give our jobs to foreigners

I hope you're not admitting to any prejudice against people of different color, religion, culture. Are you?
Jeddbird wrote:So I take it that some of you ... ... are against helping businesses provide jobs to Americans & who buy American products?

Not against it at all. In fact reducing tax and regulatory burdens on US businesses will help keep them here. You are blaming the businesses themselves, rather than seeing that Government policy is the true villain. Government is the proper target of yor anger--not for giving subsidies to offshore business, but maintaining burdensome taxes and regulations that discourage businesses from remaining in the US.
Ashcat
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 983
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Blaschak

Re: Obama announces plan to close tax loopholes*

PostBy: KLook On: Wed May 06, 2009 2:49 pm

Hey Samhill, and get a job with our State Gov. or any electric utility or phone company or even better yet, the federal jobs around military installations or saving a salmon or even better, the post office! They are so overpaid the postal service is going to lose 2.3 billion this year, but you dont see anyone calling for cutting their wages do you? My post office is never open and they get every holiday a guy can think of. It is ok to lose money if you are a gov entity but a business would have to make cuts or fail. I was in that position and I cut all employees and started over. So much for investing in american jobs, they didnt give crap about my success, just getting the benefits they were "entitled" to.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Obama announces plan to close tax loopholes*

PostBy: samhill On: Wed May 06, 2009 3:23 pm

I had a government job for awhile but it didn`t work out too well, people kept trying to kill me so I got out as soon as I could. I don`t think everyone should share the wealth equally, never said I did & I`m not a socialist & don`t like being refered to as such. I think a lot of people do make too much money, just look at wall st, sports & ceo s for a start. Look at how much a American CEO makes in comparison to any other country & what risk is involved when they drive a company into the ground & walk away with millions? I guess a lot of people think everything was going along just great. Open your eyes as to how the country got here, it didn`t just start in Jan.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

Re: Obama announces plan to close tax loopholes*

PostBy: samhill On: Wed May 06, 2009 3:44 pm

I almost forgot Klook I did run a small business years ago & did pretty good too but it was working after an 8hr or better shift in a steel mill & just got to be too much. I had to decide which way to go so I stayed in the mills because they would always be there( no need to say more about that). My son just went out of business last year, couldn`t find good help & got fed up with the businesses that he did work for not paying or stringing the payments out. But where did the work ethics go? You think just maybe the lack of education & parenting skills could have had a part, giving kids everything they wanted instead of making them work for it & I`m not talking to anyone in perticular just in general. Where did the country start the down hill spiril?
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75