Obama announces plan to close tax loopholes*

I was wondering when someone was going to say something about the supposed incentives. I can see how you may associate disincentives abroad (tariffs) as being incentives here(tax breaks). It simply won't happen that way though and you already know it won't. I don't understand why folks just won't say "This won't work".


Jeddbird, why do you think the federal government "needs" that tax revenue "here and now"? Do you think it's going to make a difference in your life? Your children's or family's lives?

I ask this in all seriousness without any ridicule implied. I want to understand your view of this that's all.

We again seem to be getting drawn off into the weeds of this discussion, which at its core is quite simple & straightforward. I again ask you to listen to the words of the proposal, directly from the source, here:http://www.c-span.org/Watch/Media/2009/05/04/HP/A/18201/Pres+Obama+Sec+Geithner+Remarks+on+Tax+Reform.aspx

What you are asking me to believe is that:

1. President Obama & a team of top economists (that seem to be turning around the dire economic situation that existed just a few months ago) are really idiots & can’t see the obvious folly that this tax proposal represents but that a few of you here see so clearly.
2. Somehow, ending unfair tax breaks for SOME large corporations & individuals, who aren’t timely paying the fair share of taxes to the U.S. is a bad thing. (Every dime they don’t pay is dime you & I have to make up to take up the slack)
3. That if this same proposal had been forwarded by a President John McCain, that many of you wouldn’t be rallying behind it as good “Change” to try out & see it if works.

Are you really saying that the adoption of this proposal will be guaranteed to have such devastating bad results that there is no possibility that it may work? (& that obvious bad result is beyond Obama & his economists to see?)
Again, I think what I’m hearing is just partisan opposition to ANY proposal coming out of this White House, not based on race (as Brock alleged) but strictly based on political party.

I may be wrong & you may be right, but, then again, the opposite may be just as true.

Jeddbird wrote:1. President Obama & a team of top economists (that seem to be turning around the dire economic situation that existed just a few months ago) are really idiots & can’t see the obvious folly that this tax proposal represents but that a few of you here see so clearly.

i still feel that the economy would of turned around quicker if we wouldnt of dropped billions and trillions into with tax payer money.

the recession would of ended with or without govt help. its a fact. it happens all the time.

Jeddbird wrote:2. Somehow, ending unfair tax breaks for SOME large corporations & individuals, who aren’t timely paying the fair share of taxes to the U.S. is a bad thing. (Every dime they don’t pay is dime you & I have to make up to take up the slack)

I so tired of hearing the phrase fair share. Obama does this just to try to get on the poor peoples side who feel that rich people owe them something. These are the people who have a sense of entitlement about everything and dont want to work hard themselves. Its just plain lazyness.

Jeddbird wrote:3. That if this same proposal had been forwarded by a President John McCain, that many of you wouldn’t be rallying behind it as good “Change” to try out & see it if works.

John mccain is basically an idiot as well. He is really a democrat undercover as a republican. although i do feel he would of done a better job then obama i dont think he would of been much different then many of democrat presidents

Jeddbird wrote:Again, I think what I’m hearing is just partisan opposition to ANY proposal coming out of this White House, not based on race (as Brock alleged) but strictly based on political party.

sorry for jumping the gun on the race card, but a certain old member once accused me of it before so im a little jumpy about the whole thing.

Isnt it funny that Obama and his TOP economic advisors are so intelligent and savvy and no one in previous history has had such TOP advisors and savvy? Why do you think he is riding in on a white horse with his able sidekicks to save the day? It is political posturing. There is nothing new under the sun in how to regulate/not regulate commerce. All decisions at the highest levels take advantage away from one group and give advantage to another. But sometimes taking advantages away from some groups hurt the other groups as well. If corporations are put in situations where making a profit is difficult or impossible, they will take the money they have already and keep it. Do you agree or disagree with that concept? No one is going to run a business just for the good of the great American worker.

Kevin

How many of you really believe that if BO goes after them as he proposes to do the corporations won't just uproot all their assets from the US and just take up residence where ever they are your pretty stupid. But you democrat extremists really think you can make any body do your bidding your bigger fools than you make yourselves to be. As you can see here there are many against being continually lied to but I pray you keep to your plan and you keep poking the gorilla with a stick and in 2010 you can thank yourselves for the "CHANGE" of parties. A flat tax will straighten out all problems there are no loop holes to plug or hook up your buddies.

Bill S.

A flat tax has been proposed for as long as I can remember & nothing has ever been done. Even if there was one everyone would claim they need a break for one reason or another, all income taxes probably start out fairly fair & then get changed a wee bit here & there then before you know it you end up where we are now so whats the use.

The only ones stopping the flat tax is the Government and those who it will not benefit or cause loopholes other than that there is no problem. It'll even effect the illegals and those none citizens that own the local Mini-Marts tax free. Everybody pays so tell me why it won't pass?

Bill S.

Tithing 10% to the Church is an accepted number.

Let taxpayers give no more than 10% to the Federal Government if they wish, they deserve nothing more.

AMEN!
A flat tax or the Fair Tax puts the power back on the people’s side.
Without ability to give someone or some group a 'break' the Government loses a power to rule the people!
We rule the Government, We the People!

BillMarti wrote:I agree with you mike what Bo should have done regardless of what debt was left to him by Bush he should have looked to see how that debt could be paid down before putting us into farther debt that will never be paid up. They bashed Bush for 8 years and now that there is legitimate cause to bring out the fact that BO is more inept than Bush by increasing our debt more than 8 times in his first 100 days they cry foul. As I said in the past "BOTH" parties are responsible for this mess but the more that this current government tries to hide the more comes out about how much more they hid. Why can't they just be honest about they're screw up and admit it and do more on to correct it instead of looking on how they can screw whoever they can to pay off their mistake. Taxes ,loopholes and lying is not the way to correct this. The honest way is to stop spending until you have a plan to pay debt down And keep an eye on those that are truly in need.

Bill S

No doubt, Bill, debt is the source of our problem and it remains with us and totally unaddressed by both parties.

KLook wrote: Now it has gone overseas and everyone is crying but you still want your cheap shoes, cheap cars, cheap whatever. The Northeast in particular is never going to see manufacturing again because to many people have to much money and they want the dirt and smell and traffic and ugly view etc to be somewhere else. It was said last year in the fights over windmills here in Maine that we have become a culture of "NO".

All those things are signs of a wealthy society. The option to choose among many goods and services and among lifestyles is a luxury of success.

As of now we're being taxed at about 33+% so if we were taxed at 20% we will have a 15% savings and only church's and none profit none political supporting entities would be exempt. The only way they could lose their exempt status would be if they directly and knowingly contributed (money) to a political party for any reason. The SS IRS would go away and they would have to find a real job not harassing citizens decreasing the government power quite a bit. I don't consider the above as loopholes they are supposed to help those in need I know my church does. We need to push this agenda at the next election and not stop until it's accomplished and stop allowing the government to usurp "WE THE PEOPLES" authority. Just a thought and how do we push this issue.

Bill S.

BillMarti wrote:

coaledsweat wrote:

BillMarti wrote:And the electoral collage circumvents voters rights.

It does nothing of the kind, the Electoral College is about states rights. Our country is a republic.

Who has the final vote for the president----the Electoral College not the voters

Bill S.

It isn't the "final" vote, it is a breakdown of votes cast by voters by the states. If the voters themselves don't decide, you would not know who won until the Electoral College met, which you know is not the case.

I`m old enough that when I first heard about the flat tax idea it was at 1%, now I`m hearing 10 to 20%. I don`t think the way the gov. gets the tax is as important as the way they use it. We as a people have to demand true change in Gov. & we can only do that thru votes & even that is iffy anymore. But no matter what is done its not going to be a rapid transition, are we headed in the right direction now? I surely don`t know but its what the majority voted for & for some that refuse to believe it they always have the option of running or at least writeing in their own name because they are smarter than the average person. The deficit left was a huge problem but it was just the beginning, the way we were heading the country was soon going to shut down, no banking system -no money-no work-no taxes being paid & on & on. And how much was the unfounded increase in gas prices responsible for a lot of the problem? They lower the price for a short period of time & the heat is off. We The People have a short memory & thats why so many career politicians, screw the people for 3 years & then give back just a little & we vote the cycle all over. We The People have to change as well as change government. IMO

I don`t think the way the gov. gets the tax is as important as the way they use it.

It is both.
If the Government does not have to take care of everyone then they can do the basics for less total money in the budget.
If you need less then you can 'afford' to go to a basic flat/Fair Tax.
The problem with the Government is it is too big and inefficient, wasting large amounts of money.
The Government feels the desire to take care of our every need and just cannot see the logic in some projects.
MA has a free car program that the taxpayers are on the hook for!
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/2009_05_07_Free_cars_for_poor_fuel_road_rage/srvc=home&position=also
And the bailout Of GM does not look like it will benefit US workers, so why did we spend OUR Billions on a public company?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/07/AR2009050704336.html