Iraqis Seek Death Penalty for Ex-U.S. Soldier

Re: Iraqis Seek Death Penalty for Ex-U.S. Soldier

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat May 09, 2009 5:49 pm

ErikLaurence wrote:
Please find me the federal statute he violated.

Killing an Iraqi in Iraq is not against US federal law.


I haven't suggested you're wrong. My point is if there is a loophole in the law you address that. Certainly a U.S. soldier should not be able to get away with murder but he should be tried by the U.S. government.
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Re: Iraqis Seek Death Penalty for Ex-U.S. Soldier

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sat May 09, 2009 6:07 pm

Richard S. wrote:
ErikLaurence wrote:
Please find me the federal statute he violated.

Killing an Iraqi in Iraq is not against US federal law.


I haven't suggested you're wrong. My point is if there is a loophole in the law you address that. Certainly a U.S. soldier should not be able to get away with murder but he should be tried by the U.S. government.



You might be right. I've sent an email to an FBI agent buddy of mine (he's also a lawyer, as are most of them) asking him about it. I'll be curious to hear what he says.
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Re: Iraqis Seek Death Penalty for Ex-U.S. Soldier

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Sat May 09, 2009 10:17 pm

ErikLaurence wrote:I'm not sure I understand why he was tried in US federal court. It was a crime against Iraqi civilians by a US soldier. The jurisdiction seems to be clearly an Iraqi court or an Army Court Martial.

He can't be tried by the Army as he was discharged prior to any charges being brought up.
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Re: Iraqis Seek Death Penalty for Ex-U.S. Soldier

PostBy: pvolcko On: Sun May 10, 2009 12:12 am

The Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act (enacted in 2000, amended in 2004) grants federal criminal jurisdiction for crimes committed by someone who was at the time of the alleged offense a military member, under the employ of the military, or accompanying the military outside the US. The jurisdiction only exists if the accused is no longer subject to the UMCJ or is claimed to have committed the offense with people who are not subject to the UMCJ.

This law was passed specifically to fill the gap in jurisdiction being discussed here.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_ ... 20mcrm.htm
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2009/04/06 ... ction-law/

The prosecution is occuring and if found guilty it is entirely likely that the conviction will stick as this law was pretty clearly enacted to handle exactly this kind of case.
pvolcko
 

Re: Iraqis Seek Death Penalty for Ex-U.S. Soldier

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sun May 10, 2009 7:04 am

pvolcko wrote:The Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act (enacted in 2000, amended in 2004) grants federal criminal jurisdiction for crimes committed by someone who was at the time of the alleged offense a military member, under the employ of the military, or accompanying the military outside the US. The jurisdiction only exists if the accused is no longer subject to the UMCJ or is claimed to have committed the offense with people who are not subject to the UMCJ.

This law was passed specifically to fill the gap in jurisdiction being discussed here.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_ ... 20mcrm.htm
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2009/04/06 ... ction-law/

The prosecution is occuring and if found guilty it is entirely likely that the conviction will stick as this law was pretty clearly enacted to handle exactly this kind of case.



But under section 3263 of this law we have to turn them over if the country where the crime took place wants them


http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/dss/statute/3263.html
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
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Re: Iraqis Seek Death Penalty for Ex-U.S. Soldier

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Sun May 10, 2009 8:42 am

ErikLaurence wrote:
pvolcko wrote:The Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act (enacted in 2000, amended in 2004) grants federal criminal jurisdiction for crimes committed by someone who was at the time of the alleged offense a military member, under the employ of the military, or accompanying the military outside the US. The jurisdiction only exists if the accused is no longer subject to the UMCJ or is claimed to have committed the offense with people who are not subject to the UMCJ.

This law was passed specifically to fill the gap in jurisdiction being discussed here.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_ ... 20mcrm.htm
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2009/04/06 ... ction-law/

The prosecution is occuring and if found guilty it is entirely likely that the conviction will stick as this law was pretty clearly enacted to handle exactly this kind of case.



But under section 3263 of this law we have to turn them over if the country where the crime took place wants them


http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/dss/statute/3263.html
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.



You use the word " must" (actually: "have to") the link you provided uses the word "MAY" . big difference between must and may! may is a lawyer loophole word ;)
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Re: Iraqis Seek Death Penalty for Ex-U.S. Soldier

PostBy: pvolcko On: Sun May 10, 2009 12:28 pm

Also, the delivery has to be authorized on our end, presumably by DoD or State Dept. and (a)(2) states there has to be a treaty or other agreement that the transfer is authorized by. In this case, as was pointed our earlier, there is an agreement with Iraq that soldiers are to be tried by the US. While Erik mentioned that many of the provisions of that agreement had been rescinded, it wasn't stated if this particular part of the agreement had been changed or revoked yet or not. I would suspect it would be one of the last provisions to be substantially changed, probably only once we've drawn down to the point were we no longer perform frequent patrols or otherwise frequently operate outside the US embassy complex or military bases.

And, has there even been an official request for extradition? The articles I've read have talked about and quoted upset Iraqi citizens, but I haven't read that there has been an official request for criminal trial in Iraq. I may have missed it though as I didn't read every line of the stories.
pvolcko
 

Re: Iraqis Seek Death Penalty for Ex-U.S. Soldier

PostBy: bendixgomez On: Sat May 23, 2009 8:22 am

But guys... About the Iraqis Seek Death Penalty for Ex-U.S. Soldier.. Is it really a big thing o the U.S. Government?
bendixgomez
 

Re: Iraqis Seek Death Penalty for Ex-U.S. Soldier

PostBy: Steve.N On: Sat May 23, 2009 11:48 am

Just execute him here for his crimes as he should be, problem solved.
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Re: Iraqis Seek Death Penalty for Ex-U.S. Soldier

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sat May 23, 2009 4:54 pm

Steve.N wrote:Just execute him here for his crimes as he should be, problem solved.


He got life.
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Re: Iraqis Seek Death Penalty for Ex-U.S. Soldier

PostBy: cabinover On: Tue May 26, 2009 11:40 am

Not good enough. Now you and I have to pay for his worthless a$$ sitting in some prison. He should have been handed a pistol, one bullet, and placed in a mob of that girl's family members. Hopefully they'd get to him before he could load the bullet.
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