Energy Bill Passes House 219 -212

Australia is killing their carbon tax proposals and it's already a complete failure in Spain, where it's resulted in an 18.1 percent unemployment rate (more than double Europe's average) and they are losing 2.2 jobs per every one "green job" created.

I think The New York Times quote on the European Union's cap-and-trade program (that started in 2005) says it all: "Their plan unleashed a lobbying free-for-all that led politicians to dole out favors to various industries, undermining the environmental goals. Four years later, it is becoming clear that system has so far produced little noticeable benefit to the climate, but generated a multi-billion dollar windfall for some of the continent's biggest polluters."

- Glen Beck

sharkman8810 wrote: Why doesn't obama use some charm with the electric companies to see that they upgrade plants to cut pollution,.

The major pollutants with the exception of Nitogen dioxide have decreased since the 70's. They continue to decrease at a steady rate yet we have increased power generation, more cars and many more buildings being built.

http://www.epa.gov/air/airtrends/aqtrnd ... ochure.pdf



The CO2 the bill targets is not a pollutant but a greenhouse gas. Because of the enormity of it storing it becomes a major issue. Underground sequestration looks to be the route they will take but that is not possible everywhere.

samhill wrote:I have a question about this whole mess. Where were Boehner & all the other hero`s in both parties every time the energy B.S. was going on for the last few decades, how many of them were making money off of it just feeding their on greed & doing nothing for the people?

Gas has gone up and down... I can remember paying about 80 cents for gallon in North Carolina when it bottomed out 12 or 13??? years ago near the outer banks. that was the very cheapest I ever saw it. The fact is with the latest hike was people kept buying it at those prices. It wasn't until it got up around $3.50 a gallon that consumption started slowing. It's how any market works, if you can sell it for more you'd be a fool not to do it.

I`m a good bit older than you are Richard, as a teen gas was in the 30 cent range. What I`m talking about was in the 70s when there was a made up gas shortage, gas prices not only shot up never to come back down but it was extremely hard to get. Back then they created a shortage first, raised the price then gradually made it more available so everyone was happy that they could get it even if at an inflated price. Smart. Now there is so much arrogance driven greed that prices are just raised & the finger is pointed at someone else. Henry Ford used mass production to lower prices to make more of a market, made a bit lower profit but made it up in volume. Now they use advertiseing to create demand by making everyone believe they can`t live without their product( or better yet make their kids want it) & even when there are warehouses full of them they hold them back to create a rush for their over priced whatever.

Well I was born 71 so I don't remember the gas shortages, too young. In any event my point is that although there is manipulation in the market ultimately the price is going to be decided by what people will pay for it. The supply side can be manipulated but it's like any other market, you still have gluts. OPEC was dropping output and the price was still falling because no one was buying it after the collapse. One of the fundamental principals of this legislation is to make energy expensive to shape our habits and use less which is one thing I really have an issue with.

On the flip side of the 80 cents a gallon I paid in NC a few years back going almost 20 years I saw prices of $3.50 a gallon outside death Valley. The average cost was around $1.80 at that point. They could do that for two reason. Firstly they ahve a captive audience and secondly they were justified since it probably took a 12 hour round trip for a tanker to get there.