We need "Change" alright, A Third Political Party

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We need "Change" alright, A Third Political Party

PostBy: Richard S. On: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:41 am

Firstly as most of you know my views side with the Republicans mostly but that is the core Republican values of less taxes, less government and more freedom. The Democrats certainly have some issues they champion I side with. Having said that I firmly believe that the majority of Americans are just like me with leanings to one side or the other but for the most part are sitting on a fence in the middle which is why we need a third party to represent our interests. The current system is so corrupt it is beyond repair with these two parties in power.

After watching the six hour fiasco that unfolded with the passing of the Energy Bill this past week I've come to the conclusion that both the Democrat and Republican party are now so far gone they are all but useless. For starters we have 1200 page bill rammed through with a 300 page amendment dropped into it at 3AM the day before it's to be voted on. How many Democrats do you think read all 300 pages before it was voted on? I'm only using the Democrats as an example as this would have happened if the Republicans were in power as well. They are both equally bad playing politics when they should be representing our interests. As best I can tell whether your Democrat or Republican most believe this to be very bad legislation. "We the people" don't want it no matter which side of the aisle your on and again if this was a Republican bill it would be the same thing.

The debate itself was a joke. I've been following both the global warming legislation, estimates and studies both pro and con devouring just about anything I can lay my hands on. Both parties during this debate were misrepresenting or outright lying about many of the facts and figures they presented. My only other conclusion could be they have no clue and if that is the case we are really in a world of trouble.

BOTH of these parties are destroying this great nation and it needs to stop. They both pander to the special interests while "We the People" get a crowbar stuck up our ass. I'm pissed and rightly so as should every other American. If this isn't stopped I really fear for the well being of this country and what it will become.
Richard S.
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Re: We need "Change" alright, A Third Political Party

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:21 am

If a third party would come along I fear it would be corrupted rather rapidly but it would be fun while it lasted. As voters we all need memory checks, it seems that a politician can screw over us for years then maybe do something good & thats all we remember. The good act somehow allows seems to be shortly before elections. I still think term limits are needed, lets face it greed is a human flaw, some can control it most can`t just like booze & drugs. Don`t know it they still do it but way way back in grade school the teacher would ask what you want to be when you grow up, there would be a lot of doctors,nurses, police, firemen & the suck-ups would want to be teachers. Never heard anyone back then wanting to be a career politian just like all the rest of my family. I never knew back then that politics was a family business, guess your never too old to learn.
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Re: We need "Change" alright, A Third Political Party

PostBy: Richard S. On: Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:30 am

The corruption of new third party would certainly be a possibility and certainly brings up a valid point. Power corrupts but even if there was a short time where they could really make a difference maybe it would have some very good effects. For example the current powers to be don't want to tackle term limits and openness on either side of the aisle because it's their lively hood at stake. I'd imagine most Americans would whole heatedly support term limits but again we get the shaft because the political machine on both sides are protecting themselves. With a third party we might be able to change that right off the start.
Richard S.
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Re: We need "Change" alright, A Third Political Party

PostBy: jpete On: Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:35 am

I just got back from a trip to Independence Hall and the Liberty Bell. I picked up a copy of "Common Sense" by Thomas Paine at the gift shop. I suggest everyone run out and grab a copy before it becomes a "banned" book. :) Only $6.95!

http://www.amazon.com/Common-Rights-Ess ... 593&sr=1-3

Seriously, I can't help thinking how many similarities there are between then and now.

Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one; for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries by a government which we might expect in a country without a government, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer.

And that is what really pissed me off. We pay at least a third of our income for this mess called government.

Wherefore, security being the true design and end of government, it unanswerably follows, that whatever form thereof appears most likely to ensure it to us, with the least expence and greatest benefit, is preferable to all others.

Anyone want to argue that the Department of Homeland Security provides the greatest benefit at the least cost?

And to the naysayers, I'll let Mr. Paine explain it.

Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it the superficial appearence of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. But the tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason.
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Re: We need "Change" alright, A Third Political Party

PostBy: Complete Heat On: Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:05 pm

I believe our politicians are too entrenched, and the only way we are going to get them out is at the end of a rifle barrel.

Complete Heat
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Re: We need "Change" alright, A Third Political Party

PostBy: pvolcko On: Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:09 pm

Might I suggest you try running for office or getting involved in local and state politics first, before breaking out the rifle? :)

A lot of good could be accomplished simply by getting some short timer senators and and reps elected who do not have an interest in being career politicians and have some basic goals in getting elected:

- Support term limits. At the very least get some much needed national exposure for the proposition.
- Support limited government. No pork. No unethical special interest wheeling and dealing (though they still get an ear, right along with every citizen and constituent). Pressing for spending reductions in the face of deficits.
- Support honest, open government. No support for rushed bills. Supporting exposure and analysis from all perspectives and interests on controversial policy decisions. Use of new technology and old alike to attain better transparency and levels of communication with constituents and citizens.
- Support humble government in both domestic and foreign policy. Careful consideration of trade agreements, treaties, alliances, intelligence gathering, military placements and engagements, etc. Absolute support for maintaining sovereignty and enforcing and abiding by the constitution, more care on new foreign entanglements, and recall of various troops and assets where and when feasible. Support for incremental trade expansion, as opposed to all out free-trade agreements. Support for enforcement of competition clauses in existing free-trade agreements. Etc.

And, please, can we get some people in office that can lead a relatively moral life for the time they are in office? No prostitutes or extramarital affairs. No illegal drug use. No DWIs. No criminal acts. No bribery. No misappropriation of public funds. No abuse of power. Clean campaign financing. Is this all really so much to ask?

Re: We need "Change" alright, A Third Political Party

PostBy: jeromemsn On: Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:17 pm

I think what we need is 8 yrs max and out for any and all elected officials. It's just plane wrong what has happend and it should not be allowed to go on. How much does a president make in a term, well thats how much he should be allowed to spend to run for office. Nonsence what is spent to get someone elected, no insanity! We talk about wall street types that have over the waterfall paydays well what about government officials. And while on the subject I'm tired of paying for all there lawyers that have to back them up while there in office if they don't know what there doing as far as right and wrong well then they have to pay for it just like us, so no more 30 lawyers to every official. 200 yrs of writting laws and they still don't have it right, there not writting laws anyway there writting how to bend laws without breaking them and getting caught! There are ten rules in life to live by, just like there are ten rules to buy a used boiler! (Thank You again Matthaus)
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Re: We need "Change" alright, A Third Political Party

PostBy: billw On: Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:44 am

Term limits are a great first step however the politicians at every level of government has to pass that law. Why would they act against their own self interest? I've voted in every election since 1976, even the off years. I'm just about convinced the only way these *censored* politicians are going to listen is if there are massive protests or riots and a few of them physically get their asses kicked.

There isn't a spit of difference between the D's and R's. They talk a great game but the bottom line is they are both doing their best to buy votes from us with programs that are unsustainable in the long run. And before the diehard R's get their milk in an uproar just look at the medicare prescription drug plan passed by the R's in congress and signed by the last republican president. I've been a republican since the time of Nixon but I'm so fed up with their blatant lies I turned independent several years ago. I expect the dems to pick my pocket but I got caught off guard by the R's doing the same thing. Tax and spend or borrow and spend is the same thing. These jerks need to learn tax revenue is a finite quantity.
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Re: We need "Change" alright, A Third Political Party

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:25 am

for thousands of years the "end of a barrel" method is the only one that brought real change. sword,crossbow & long bow, trebuchet or cannon. a snake will slither until its last segment of body is physically stopped.

now when honor was king, men walked 10 paces, turned and shot to prove thier point....

these days they use (and abuse) the media to fire thier shot.

as long as thier are lawyers............ :cry:
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Re: We need "Change" alright, A Third Political Party

PostBy: SMITTY On: Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:08 am

MA state gov't is run by career criminals ....I mean politicians. We have Fat Teddy at the top of the food chain -- a man who killed a young woman & lied about it, & went on to a nearly 5 DECADE political career.

I see no change in this state without using Complete Heat's method. And the only way that would ever happen is if the wealthy in & around Boston have to fight each other for food.
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Re: We need "Change" alright, A Third Political Party

PostBy: jeromemsn On: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:18 pm

As I see it I believe Serfs like us will soon rise up and take back what is or used to be America. Just remember some of the great commercials of our time, A better idea (I think this one was Fords) Well as far as I can see there are no better ideas than to let a worker keep and spend his money the way he wants, as long as he follows the ten rules!
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Re: We need "Change" alright, A Third Political Party

PostBy: BigBarney On: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:30 am


That's why the writers of the constitution put the right to bear arms in

that document,they knew that sometime in the future it would be necessary

to overthrow the government.No government can last forever and a complete

change is needed for the Republic to stand.


Re: We need "Change" alright, A Third Political Party

PostBy: Complete Heat On: Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:54 pm

Last edited by Complete Heat on Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: We need "Change" alright, A Third Political Party

PostBy: Complete Heat On: Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:55 pm

Big Barney,

When the govt. becomes an impediment to the pursuit of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, we are charged by the founding fathers to remove that Govt. Historically, every Govt. wound up oppressing the people, and the US Govt. is no different. I understand all too well the Constitution and the powers that it delegates to states, the people and the Feds. What the Constitution says and what is being done are 180 degrees out of phase. At this point I just laugh about it, because 90% of the population doesn't care, and would willingly put forth a guilty verdict for someone who actually held a Govt. official responsible for their actions. I have no kids (when I am gone, I don't care), and I know how to survive if the Govt. went away, so I am not going to offer myself up as the sacrificial lamb for the 90% who could care less. Those people with kids should be worried.

I had an interesting conversation with a friend of mine the other day. This man is extremely well educated, and is a financial advisor. We got to talking politics, and a long story short, he thinks Obama is the best thing since sliced bread, but could offer up no reason why. We spoke about the bail outs, and he said that it is constitutional, so I offered up a copy of the Constitution, but he could not find it, even after I read all of the federal Governments powers. We spoke about currency, and he said that our fiat dollar is better than gold. With regards to the economy, he said the only thing that would kill it would be inflation. So I asked about the Feds printing trillions of dollars, and how that leads to inflation, and what our Leader was going to do to prevent the ensuing inflationary cycle. The reply I got was that I did not understand (My major in college was economics).

Have a happy 4th, our founding fathers are turning over in their graves.

Complete Heat
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Re: We need "Change" alright, A Third Political Party

PostBy: BigBarney On: Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:11 am

I agree 100% with your ideas and think that the ultimate failure will come as you alluded to,

the dollar will collapse with any raise in interest rates which will make the US debt a burden

that no amount of government intervention will solve.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnnajAVs ... re=related

The Us has crushing debt that takes about ~17% of US Budget now with interest rates at

near record lows,if rates rise to 6% you almost double the US debt service which is not



This is an interesting clock which has time periods day,week etc that tracks many things

in the world including US debt,world population,tons of coal,even amount of livestock produced.

In the birth/death clock you will see the world population growing at a rate over twice

the deaths,which will eventually over stress all world resources including the amount of

capital available to service the US debt,especially at the low current rates.All countries

with available capital will invest that in resources not debt of a floundering country.

China has been buying oil reserves in Brazil,Canada,and other countries,Russia bought the largest

bituminous miner in central PA,China is trying to buy a huge coal producer in Australia,

and the list goes on and on.

Maybe I got off track but this is the way I see the world going in the future.