So You Want to Buy a Used Boiler??

So You Want to Buy a Used Boiler??

PostBy: Matthaus On: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:17 pm

I have to preface this thread by saying that I have sold more than my fair share of used boilers, both rebuilt and in their natural state over the past couple years. I've been accused of having my ear to the ground for any available unit so I could snatch it up! :lol: :lol: Of course I'm not the only one on here on the prowl for saving the good used iron that abounds in the basements of older homes. I encourage everyone to enroll in the "save a coal boiler" movement. :lol:

It occurred to me that there are lots of them around these days as more folks become aware of what they have... but just because they look purty, and burn coal doesn't mean they are a good idea to purchase at the asking price. So I figured I would start a thread on what to look for when purchasing and of course I'm counting on those with knowledge will add more information.

Here are a few of the things I look for:
1. Have the boiler and DHW been been pressure tested with water, boiler to at least 40 PSIG and the coil to at least 75 PSIG?
2. Does the interface where the DHW coil have a good solid and clean surface to mate to or is it half rusted away?
3. Is the boiler AME rated, and are there areas where the pressure vessel was welded, and if so is there an ASME R stamp evident to cover the repair?
4. Does the boiler have locations where leaks eroded the outer skin of the pressure vessel?
5. How does the interior of the boiler look? Is it scaly and black/rusty with heavy deposits?
5. Does the gear box have a good supply of clean oil, I've seen units filled with grease because they were noisy or leaked? Pull the cover and look at the worm gear if possible, using incorrect oil can eat the worm.
6. Are there signs that the unit was left sitting unused for an extended period of time? If so the chance of corrosion and leaks increases.
7. Is the unit repainted without replacement of wear parts such as bearings, seals, bushings, and other wear hardware?
8. Do the interior surfaces look as if the fly ash was never cleaned off and Is the flue pipe full of fly ash? If so look elsewhere for signs of wear due to lack of maintenance.
9. Are the grates cracked or warped? If so it probably was run improperly or at extremely high loads.
10. Are the edges of the auger knife edged and worn, and are there non standard parts installed instead of the shear pins? This can indicate that the drive train was stressed to the break point.

Overall if a unit is in it's original location you at least have a good chance of discovering flaws more easily. Once a unit is removed and cleaned, the signs of neglect are harder to spot. Once a unit is located, questions about where to get parts, if spares come with the unit and general sustainability and reliability are usually good ways to find out if the seller knows his or her product. If you are buying a unit from other than the owner, be aware that you run a higher risk of spending too much money and purchasing a unit with hidden defects (not necessarily due to deception, just merely because the seller doesn't know). If the unit is rebuilt make sure you can verify all the unseen items that were said to be replaced, and ask around about the seller to make sure this person is reputable. The bottom line to a happy buying experience is allowing for some surprises if you can't verify the unit is in fully operational condition. :idea:

If there is any area that the seller doesn't want you to see, or question that cannot be addressed before purchasing, either get some money off the price to compensate your risk or run and don't look back! ;)

Happy Hunting!! :P
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Re: So You Want to Buy a Used Boiler??

PostBy: jeromemsn On: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:18 pm

:clap: :punk: Good rules to live by. Now what are your rules for bailouts, please keep them simple stupid for me at least, oh and keep them real simple stupid for the government also, lol.

While out in Michiagn this last couple of weeks, I had a lot of people asking about my Harman insert and why the chimney's were being replaced at the home I bought so I explained about coal and how good it was. Well everyone out there just loves burning wood at 175 a cord and splitting it, and you should see the piles and piles of wood in every ones yards out there. Well anyway I bet I know where some of those boilers might go after I'm out there for a bit.
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Re: So You Want to Buy a Used Boiler??

PostBy: glenn harris On: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:45 pm

Matthaus wrote:3. Is the boiler AME rated, and are there areas where the pressure vessel was welded, and if so is there an ASME R stamp evident to cover the repair?
:P


Matthaus hit it square on the head! :hammer:

Just a few more thoughts on ASME ratings:

The ASME rating is a good thing! It means that the guys welding up the boiler really knew what they were doing. Not just some kids fresh out of tech learning how to melt steel!
Also, an ASME certified shop has to use higher quality steel. You will know if the boiler is ASME certified if it has the H stamp on the plate. All boilers used in a commercial building must be ASME certified.
This certification also increases the cost of the boiler! Thus, one of the reasons an EFM is a little more expensive than most other boilers! :) You get what you pay for!
However, even EFM for a while was not using ASME. If you find a boiler w/out the H stamp, just check it out carefully like Matthaus stated and you should be okay.

Happy hunting!

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Re: So You Want to Buy a Used Boiler??

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:55 pm

If you can, before you go look at a used boiler 'for sale', get a look at a manual for the boiler, or go see one in operation.. Ask on this site for advise for what to look for on a specific make or model of boiler.. each boiler type has it's idiosyncracies.. Each make has it's 'wear points' and 'weak spots'. And they all have their fly ash collection spots that can be corrosion spots.

Unless you are a welder, or know a good one, stay away from badly rusted units.. there are plenty of good used boilers 'out there'. You can buy a lot of work if you aren't lucky or too impatient.

If a boiler looks 'rough', it probably is.. dirt and grease are not a problem, nor is surface rust.. but the locations mentioned by Matthaus are examples of hidden or sometimes 'in plain sight' serious rust locations.

Best of luck, Greg L
Burning Pea/Buckwheat through an antique stoker [semi retired SSboiler],
Running an Axeman-Anderson 260M boiler burning Pea, About 150-250#per day
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Re: So You Want to Buy a Used Boiler??

PostBy: traderfjp On: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:51 am

Very nice of you to offer this information for all of. This should be a sticky.
Disclaimer: I'm not an expert in any coal or plumbing related field. I only post my own experiences, research and common sense. If you choose to use any of the information in this post or any other post you do so at your own risk.
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Re: So You Want to Buy a Used Boiler??

PostBy: Matthaus On: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:25 am

I wanted to add this piece of information since purchasing a used unit last week which was not run during the summer months. This is a 1958 AA 130 that was purchased with the house 18 years ago by the person I purchased it from. He only ran the unit in the winter and did not clean it or preserve the unit for storage during the summer months for that 18 years, before that who knows how it was run. If you purchase a unit and can determine that it was run this way be advised that the unit probably has issues. The person I purchased this unit from was very honest and actually was going to scrap the unit due to a leak. I of course can't stand to see that happen so I convinced him to let me have the unit along with the parts I was purchasing. Here is a pic of the leak after punching out the rust and loose metal with a scraper. The hole was quite a bit bigger after going at it with a needle scaler.

I post this as a reminder that when you are purchasing a boiler (or any coal burning appliance for that matter) and don't know the history or are unsure of the condition in places you can't see without disassembly, take the time to find out what is there! Hydrostat (fill with water and then pressurize with air) to 45 PSIG before paying top dollar for any boiler. If you can't do that then the price should reflect your risk.

Happy hunting! :)
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Yes that is a 1/2" square piece of steel going right through the interior of the fire box into the pressure vessel!
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Re: So You Want to Buy a Used Boiler??

PostBy: Yanche On: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:42 am

I assume the rust hole was started from the combustion side of the boiler vessel wall. It's always possible, but unlikely, that the hole started from the inside from continued fresh oxygen being added to the boiler water. When the rust through area was cleaned did the edges look tapered? If so which way? Do you plan to repair it? If so how?
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Re: So You Want to Buy a Used Boiler??

PostBy: Matthaus On: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:41 am

Yes, I think the corrosion started from the fly ash being left with moisture, there was indication that the fire went up into the return head on the auger (ash cone and draft issues IMO), that is where the hole is right under the coal delivery point. So with the flames being hottest at that point the corroded area got a repeat cycle of corrosive summer months coupled with high heat and direct flames in the winter... and who knows for how long.

Yes the metal is tapered, and I need to cut out an oval hole till I reach proper thickness material, I will need to check other areas of the boiler as well to make sure there are no other issues before attempting the repair. I have some ASME SA 516 Grade 70 1/4" boiler plate I used on a previous repair so I will use that for the patch. Will be flush fit, bevel cut with no sharp corners and hydrostat pressure tested after the root pass to 15 SPIG to make sure it is a good weld. Of course the boiler will be hydrostat tested to 45 PSIG after welding is complete to verify integrity. My x-ray machine is on the fritz so no x-rays will be provided. :lol:

Just another little project, and so little time. :P
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Re: So You Want to Buy a Used Boiler??

PostBy: oliver power On: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:02 pm

glenn harris wrote:
Matthaus wrote:3. Is the boiler AME rated, and are there areas where the pressure vessel was welded, and if so is there an ASME R stamp evident to cover the repair?
:P
I worked at an industrial boiler plant for 13 years. All welders working on the preasure vessel, needed to be certified, and had to stamp thier welds.

Matthaus hit it square on the head! :hammer:

Just a few more thoughts on ASME ratings:

The ASME rating is a good thing! It means that the guys welding up the boiler really knew what they were doing. Not just some kids fresh out of tech learning how to melt steel!
Also, an ASME certified shop has to use higher quality steel. You will know if the boiler is ASME certified if it has the H stamp on the plate. All boilers used in a commercial building must be ASME certified.
This certification also increases the cost of the boiler! Thus, one of the reasons an EFM is a little more expensive than most other boilers! :) You get what you pay for!
However, even EFM for a while was not using ASME. If you find a boiler w/out the H stamp, just check it out carefully like Matthaus stated and you should be okay.

Happy hunting!

Glenn Harris
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