Outside air intake for insert?

Outside air intake for insert?

PostBy: Touring On: Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:34 pm

Currently I have just an old open fireplace. I am looking at installing an insert to heat the first floor of our house which is about 800 sq ft and reasonably open. I would love if it did the second floor but that is not a priority. I was looking at gas since I could have an outside air intake. I grew up with a wood stove which we installed a coal crate in it. I remember how well it heated once the coals caught fire and it made me wonder if anyone makes an insert coal stove with an outside air intake?

Thanks for the help!
Touring
 

Re: Outside air intake for insert?

PostBy: Pete69 On: Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:03 am

there are several coal inserts that have the capacity to heat your whole house. Do a search in the hand fired section and it will bring up a lot of info on inserts. Why the need for a outside air intake?
Pete69
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Baker/Vermont Castings/Chubby
Stove/Furnace Model: fireside /VigilantII/Chubby

Re: Outside air intake for insert?

PostBy: Touring On: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:38 am

I did search and found the Harman and Hitzer. I didn't see information on this feature on either stove.
Touring
 

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Re: Outside air intake for insert?

PostBy: Pete69 On: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:14 pm

I am not aware of a insert engineered to utilize a outside air intake. Why the need for the outside air. These are airtight units that only draw the necessary amount of air for combustion. Your house would have to be extremely air tight for there to be a problem.
Pete69
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Baker/Vermont Castings/Chubby
Stove/Furnace Model: fireside /VigilantII/Chubby

Re: Outside air intake for insert?

PostBy: Touring On: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:04 pm

That air needs to be replaced with something and it will be colder air that leaks in. It is what I am looking for. I know I can get it with gas but I am interested in looking into coal. I realize there are trade offs with any fuel so if an outside air intake is one then I will have to take that into consideration.

Does anyone else make inserts other then Harman & Hitzer?
Touring
 

Re: Outside air intake for insert?

PostBy: Pete69 On: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:07 am

Last winter I heated a 3500sq/ft house, from Dec 3 till spring, fairly well with 4 and 3/4 tons of coal using only my centrally located fireplace insert. I paid $255. a ton plus a delivery charge of like $130. my heat bill for the year was $1400. I couldn't have come close to heating the house that cheep with propane , or fuel oil. Natural gas is not an option for me. You could probably heat your 1600 sq/ft house to 80 deg. all winter on 3 or 4 ton. and never notice the small amount of fresh air needed to replace that used for combustion.
I like The baker fireplace insert the best. Each brand has their advantages and disadvantages.
Pete69
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Baker/Vermont Castings/Chubby
Stove/Furnace Model: fireside /VigilantII/Chubby

Re: Outside air intake for insert?

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:15 pm

I do not believe there are any coal stoves with a dedicated outside air intake.. This includes free standing stoves as well as inserts..

Even the stoker stoves, that have a conveniant combustion fan that could easily be hooked to a dedicated fresh air inlet, the still are no stoves built that have a dedicated outside air inlet..

The reason I believe is that a natural gas or propane stove can quite easily be made with sensors that will shut off the gas and the flame if there is any restriction in the air intake.. But with a coal or wood fire, there is no way to 'turn off' the fire or flame, the fuel is still there, burning and untill the fire runs completely out of air, it will burn and probably burn improperly and unsafely..

All the above said,, you can quite easily make a coal insert to burn 'mostly' on outside air. If you create your own outside air intake, and duct it to the base or front of the insert, or near the combustion air intake of the insert, it will pull in and burn the outside air for a majority of the needed combustion air.. The dedicated outside air duct will provide an easier air source than the gaps around windows and doors in your house..

Do a search on this site for 'outside air' there are several threads that discuss the subject.

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Outside air intake for insert?

PostBy: Touring On: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:54 pm

Harman, Hitzer & Baker. Anyone else to add to the list of coal inserts? Baker is new by so I'll have to check them out. What do you like about it? Have you used other inserts?
Last edited by Touring on Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Touring
 

Re: Outside air intake for insert?

PostBy: 009to090 On: Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:23 pm

The Harman DVC-500 has dedicated outside air for combustion. Thats one of the reasons I got it. Heres the link....
http://www.harmanstoves.com/features.asp?id=4
The DVC-500 is a true direct vent coal stove, the first of its kind, and does not require a chimney for installation or operation. It is extremely safe and airtight, obtaining 100 percent of the air needed for the fire from outside your home and returning 100 percent of the exhaust air back outside.
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Re: Outside air intake for insert?

PostBy: Pete69 On: Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:59 am

I like the look of the baker, more of a traditional look, not fancy, but solid and rugged. Beyond looks I like the air control spin knobs and the fact that it has above and below the fire draft control. I like the cast iron loading and ash clean out doors. I like the external shaker handle. It can be ordered with top or rear flue, so it can be recessed or set on the hearth in front of the fireplace like I did, to allow the radiant heat off the sides in to the room, therefore increasing efficiency. I really like the heat exchanger design better than the Harmon or Hitzer. The drawback is that the last I looked, it costs the most of all three brands. The Hitzer's are a great bang for the buck. They have the 503 model that is the smallest of the bunch, but might be well sized for your home. It is the only model that has a hopper feed system. There is a lot of info on the 503 in the handfired section of the form. The 983 would be compared to the baker in size and heat output. It lacks the external shaker handle. You have to open the Ash pan door to shake the grates. The left and right side shake separately witch may be a bonus or not depending how you look at it. The loading door is not cast, and does not have the above the fire draft control like the baker, although it does have a air wash to keep the window clean. If you are going to recess the unit, the 983 captures the heat off the sides better than the baker or Harmon, with a tin surround that the fans are housed in. But if you wish to locate the circulation fan away from the unit , like under it in the basement or something, for noise reduction in your living area, the Baker design would facilitate that better. I think the Harmons are closer to the Baker in design than the Hitzer. Although Harmon to has the nice spin control knobs for the main draft control on the ash door, they lack the above the fire draft control that I have grown to like so much.
Pete69
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Baker/Vermont Castings/Chubby
Stove/Furnace Model: fireside /VigilantII/Chubby

Re: Outside air intake for insert?

PostBy: Touring On: Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:34 am

DVC500 at last wrote:The Harman DVC-500 has dedicated outside air for combustion. Thats one of the reasons I got it. Heres the link....
http://www.harmanstoves.com/features.asp?id=4
The DVC-500 is a true direct vent coal stove, the first of its kind, and does not require a chimney for installation or operation. It is extremely safe and airtight, obtaining 100 percent of the air needed for the fire from outside your home and returning 100 percent of the exhaust air back outside.



If it was an insert I'd buy it as well.
Touring
 

Re: Outside air intake for insert?

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Sat Jul 18, 2009 3:45 pm

The Hitzer 503 will do that size floor easily.
It heated my 'rents 2000+ sq foot house to 72*
You are going to have to build your own air intake if you want a coal insert.
Steel duct 1" free space under the Hitzer equal to the free space of all intake air on the stove.
Run that to round pipe of the proper size and the pipe to outside
A 90* facing down with a rodent screen and a ball valve.
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

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