Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane

joeblack5 wrote:Richard you mean that you have to pay for the solar installation yourself??

Quit being obtuse, you know exactly what I mean. The 30% tax credit from the feds, whatever the state is offering you, the REC if available to you, the free ride on the grid if you are not required to reimburse the utility. That's before we get into the tax subsidies and incentives given to the companies.

With the low price of solar panels and Elon Musk wall batteries

The companies owned by Ellon Musk have accrued approximately 5 billion, that is billion with a B, in federal tax subsidies.

This is the main fear of the electricity companies because you do not need them anymore. Self sufficient.

I wish you luck when it's 0 degrees out, cloudy and it's going to be like that for 2 weeks.

The electricity companies are making barriers resulting in solar being more expensive then it can be.

You be referring them to expecting you to pay for use of the grid?

joeblack5 wrote:oh yeah and regarding infant mortality rates:

Now account for the aborted babies due to health risks, those that were born alive through extraordinary efforts and the high rate among the black population across all income levels and you may be able to draw a conclusion.

I am still waiting for you choice of countries to compare.

You can account for the babies that are ...............blah. sent me the link and I will see if your info is better then mine. No need for me to do your job

No I did not use any tax credit from the feds. Nor do I think that is needed. Did you get any tax credit for your $ 30000 pickup truck?
I would hold it against you if you did. I am happy to sponsor your solar set up with some of my tax money and if you feel that you pay already to much then it is a good way of getting some back.

Nothing wrong with Elon riding the system. At least he has a pretty good vision, Can t say that about the nuclear boys.

When it is o degree that is where the coal comes in. If I would have had the insight 15 years ago to build an zero energy home the that would have been better.
You can't have it all but you sure can try to make the best of it by not denying the problems that are developing.

joeblack5 wrote:I am still waiting for you choice of countries to compare.

You are not waiting for me, I said a pick country and just so we don't lose context and you go off on some rant I was referencing population density.

You can account for the babies that are ...............blah. sent me the link and I will see if your info is better then mine. No need for me to do your job

I've already done my homework, I read a wide array of material each day from a wide array of sources so I am informed. If you want to take the time to educate yourself the CDC has a lot of information on the things I discussed.

joeblack5 wrote:Just a little counterfire of being labeled brainwashed.

. They have actual social security, they have more vacation, they are healthier, they have less gun deaths, Did you ever spend any decent amount of time there?

Nobody then the people who want everything ,now and for free would benefit from reduction of the world population and that does not smell like tree huggers that spend their free time being chained to earth moving machines or drilling rigs.

If the government wants money then they can just raise taxes like in europe there is no need for complicated schemes.

Fossil fuel on large scale will stop a lot sooner

george soros, interesting fellow, so far he has only lost money on his coal investment. So just speculation on your part. Seems like the standard large company trick. Business as usual, like the pipeline companies using eminent domain to force people to sell their land . He donates a lot of his money to causes he sees fit Doubt if he need a lot more of it.. But you now how it is with rich people and poor people alike... more is better.

Yes Bruce point
3 and 4 are well taken ...... OUR greed put it there
5 please put a reference
6a economy improving and ecosystem failing

>>>> OK Joe, What about # 1 and # 2??
#5. Copenhagen hosts the Word greenhouse "lobbyists" Consortium every year. THEY have Carbon "Credits" to SELL, so they WANT more countries sending them money, so they can send them worthless pieces of paper.
You have admitted to "Greed" But you trust a Government?, and you Further trust it to be Efficient with Your hard earned cash? Governments are at best 45% efficient. That is sad at a 65-75% Tax rate....
Just suppose the "GOVT" said, OH, No Joe, YOU only get to have 2 Tons of Coal this year, and give it to someone else who isnt doing their 'fair" share. The US tried socialism when the Pilgrims arrived in Plymouth, Mass. for 10 years or so, till people decided they would NOT do their fair share and People were forced to take care of themselves. In France, I have seen people doing NOTHING waiting to do their short work days, Hoping someone calls in sick. Their security and military is NOT good, their Tolerance allows for all sorts of Evil...
No, sorry High taxes to a group of people or even ONE that I Dont know or trust is NOT going to work..

Ok one more for tonight

richard,

this one?

https://www.cdc.gov/climateandhealth/

Ok , I thought about giving you a head start but then I choose an easy one Germany versus USA

Hi Bruce,

I am with you on 1 and 2 I do not see what relevance they have to man made global warming going on at this moment.

Ok #5 These are forward thinking countries who go out of their way to be leaders . They made smart modifications to their energy use policies and sometimes did do better then anticipated. They are helping slower countries like the USA that it is Ok to be behind and offer to reduce for us on their side to compensate for us not doing our fair share.

admitting to greed? That was just a conclusion, we should have never outsourced our production , but the american public wanted it cheaper and the american industry wanted to make more profit and now we are blaming the Chinese for polluting while they make all our products cheaper because we are unwilling to pay for the real cost. Check out the harbor freight store in your area and see what americans want to pay for a C clamp compare the price of a caliper from HF and Starrett.

On all the other points I agree with you, yes the government is inefficient, they are not trustworthy etc etc. but it is the best we have and a lot better then the industry crooks by themselves. marlborrow /smoking. Chevron/ environmental data BP / dillution is the solution for pollution.

joeblack5 wrote:
Ok , I thought about giving you a head start but then I choose an easy one Germany versus USA

Germany has population density of about 234 per sq. km, the US is about 35. If you recall what I was replying to was your comment about the lower per capita energy consumption in places like Germany. There is a clue for one of the reasons that might be, I'm sure that 35 cent per kWh electric helps lower it too.

I'm sorry but I got lost about 10 posts back. What are you guys talking about?

blrman07 wrote:I'm sorry but I got lost about 10 posts back. What are you guys talking about?

That the standard of living in Europe is so good that many of them want to move to this energy wasting, polluted land.

Paul

Sunny Boy wrote:

blrman07 wrote:I'm sorry but I got lost about 10 posts back. What are you guys talking about?

That the standard of living in Europe is so good that many of them want to move to this energy wasting, polluted land.

Paul

Those are the facts, the other addition is that this land is filled with uneducated people.

Morning Richard,

Germany pays more for electricity but they have better equipment and use about 3 times less then USA household. In the end they pay about the same amount per year,,h.... with a looooot less pollution though.

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/what-german-households-pay-power

and yes the standard of living is very good
and yes some very educated people will move to the USA to take up high paying jobs and yes low paid mexicans are blocked out.

That density number is true so lets focus on an area in the USA that has a similar density as germany and see how that number turns out.
Have to drop my kids to school so it will take a little.

Just some? Try "some" times ten. Or maybe you think a factor of ten has nothing to do with how "happy" they were ?

And what makes you think only highly educated are coming here, and just for the jobs ? That seems to go against your claim of such a high standard of living in Europe.

So far you haven't explained in a way that logically makes sense. If the standard of living is so high and Europeans are so happy, then why are ten times as many Europeans immigrating to America as Americans immigrate to Europe ?

If they are so highly educated, doesn't it seem like leaving a place with a high standard of living and where so many people are happy is a really dumb thing to do ? Or maybe it's because the info you've been fed doesn't match with reality,.... such as my Brit, Spanish, Italian, French, Finnish, and German friends say about why they left their homes in Europe and have no wish to move back even though they still go back to visit family ?

Paul

Paul,

If Industry or health care can not find the top people in the USA then they will attract that level from other highly educated countries.
They will pay a premium for these people. So for that group the standard of living in the USA is very high because of the high income.

The USA does not allow people with average job qualification to come to the USA. We have plenty ourselves.

When did your friends come here and did they just come over to look around and decided to stay?

quote :So far you haven't explained in a way that logically makes sense. If the standard of living is so high and Europeans are so happy, then why are ten times as many Europeans immigrating to America as Americans immigrate to Europe ? quote

You show me the numbers but I do not think you can find them since the USA does not document people leaving except for the military

The americans going to europe is the same but your not talking about people that work at walmart .

Richard S. wrote:

The electricity companies are making barriers resulting in solar being more expensive then it can be.

You be referring them to expecting you to pay for use of the grid?

How DOES that work now? I understand net metering in general, where the homeowner pays for power coming into his home, and the power company pays him for power sent to the grid. But in Maine, generation and transmission are not done by the same company. The power bill consists of two numbers -- one for the energy and one for use of the grid. The grid bill is further broken down into a flat fee plus a per-kilowatt fee. So with net metering, does the homeowner pay the per-kilowatt fee for power in plus power out, or for the net of in and out? Total in plus out would seem fair as far as the (utility) owner of the wires is concerned....