Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane

unhippy wrote: The largest one he could remember seeing on a house back in his area of Germany was 25 amps = 6kw....altho he did acknowledge that where he was had reticulated gas for heating and cooking.

We have a 200 amp panel but could probably get by with 30 or less at peak usage except when the dryer is running. If I'm having a party at my house, flood lights are on outside, lights through the house, stove is going, coffee pot is going, music is going, TV is going, kids decide to turn the compressor on to fill their basketball....that is where that will come in. It's a big panel but it's only needed 1% of the time.

Richard S. wrote:The only case you need to look at is when it's 8AM, 0 degrees out and the utility is hitting peak demand where the solar installations are making little or no power at all. That dictates the infrastructure and generation requirements.

I think we are saying much the same thing, except I'm thinking the worst-case scenario affects generation capacity and management far more than it affects grid costs at individual houses.

Now here's an example that really raises both grid and generation questions. There is a trend toward homeowners who band together to invest in a solar farm that may cover a few acres to a hundred acres. The farm feeds power to the grid and the homeowners indirectly get credit on their monthly bill.

rberq wrote:
Now here's an example that really raises both grid and generation questions. There is a trend toward homeowners who band together to invest in a solar farm that may cover a few acres to a hundred acres. The farm feeds power to the grid and the homeowners indirectly get credit on their monthly bill.

Depends on how it's structured, for example they may have a contract with the utility that pays them an inflated credit/price. The utility will pay that inflated price because they can then use that towards a mandate set by the state for X percentage of renewable energy in the power mix. Perhaps the utility is only crediting them wholesale and the coop receives a REC(renewable energy credit). That can then be sold to distributors to meet mandates.

In either case the average ratepayer is absorbing those costs. What they can or cannot do varies by state and you need to look at the specifics. Whatever the case they are doing it on the backs of other taxpayers, the ratepayer or both.

This is the basis for these companies like SolarCity that will lease you panels. They install the panels and get the federal tax credit plus whatever the state is offering paid for by the taxpayer. They also get the REC which is then sold to utilities to meet mandates set by the state. Those costs are ultimately paid for by the average ratepayer.

Anyway you slice it or dice it there is already an enormous amount of funding coming from both the taxpayer and the ratepayer. Now they want a free ride on the grid as well....

At some point in time enough is enough already.

joeblack5 wrote: The USA does not allow people with average job qualification to come to the USA. We have plenty ourselves.

.

This satement is completely inaccurate. At the current time, this administration is bringing in 'refugees' by the 10's of thousands for the Middle East. And our southern border is being flooded with illegals(due to the actions of this administration), most of which have little to no education at all. They are put on welfare as soon as they get here.

Yep indeed, we are talking about immigrants not about illegals and or refugees. You are looking at the wrong data.

Regarding the 8 Am 0 degree no solar ......... that is where Elon Musks power wall battery comes in. Mine is a little more old fashioned... I use my electric forklift as battery backup. the electric grid infrastructure is very sensitive to all kind of problems because it is centralized. Solar is decentralized and a much more secure solution.

joeblack5 wrote:Yep indeed, we are talking about immigrants not about illegals and or refugees. You are looking at the wrong data.

Regarding the 8 Am 0 degree no solar ......... that is where Elon Musks power wall battery comes in. Mine is a little more old fashioned... I use my electric forklift as battery backup. the electric grid infrastructure is very sensitive to all kind of problems because it is centralized. Solar is decentralized and a much more secure solution.

You said 'The government doesn't allow'...............the government is in fact 'allowing'. And by the millions I might add.

oh and here is a nice article about the reliability of our current grid.... not so good compared to...

http://www.savivaresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/April-2013-DERMS.pdf

couple of nice graphs about cost and reliability

joeblack5 wrote:Paul,

If Industry or health care can not find the top people in the USA then they will attract that level from other highly educated countries.
They will pay a premium for these people. So for that group the standard of living in the USA is very high because of the high income.

The USA does not allow people with average job qualification to come to the USA. We have plenty ourselves.

When did your friends come here and did they just come over to look around and decided to stay?

quote :So far you haven't explained in a way that logically makes sense. If the standard of living is so high and Europeans are so happy, then why are ten times as many Europeans immigrating to America as Americans immigrate to Europe ? quote

You show me the numbers but I do not think you can find them since the USA does not document people leaving except for the military

The americans going to europe is the same but your not talking about people that work at walmart .

Your twisting to trying make a point. There are government and other organization estimates of those who have left the country, including numbers from Europe. That's what the 1/10th numbers leaving are based on.

And your wrong about who can immigrate. Plenty of unskilled immigrants apply for, and receive, visas and go on to receive citizenship.

My Bother's oldest stepson met a gal from Lebanon about 8 years ago on the internet. They corresponded online for couple of years. He helped her apply and she got a visa, came to the USA, they dated, and then were married a couple of years after that. She has the equivalent of a USA high school education and no special work skills.

They now have two beautiful boys. She passed her citizenship test and was sworn in last year.

Maybe you'd like to see some of the wedding pictures as proof ?

And I'm sure you've heard of all the influx of eastern European and Russian brides-to-be coming to and receiving citizenship in the USA.

Two of Melissa's church members are an American husband and his Russian bride, that he met on line and they arranged for her to get a visa to come here. She received her citizenship a couple of years ago. She has no work skills and is a stay-at-home wife. They live right around the corner from me.

Paul

Don , that is still a different discussion.
Countries that are being ripped apart by local and international wars and a lot of innocent people need to get or be killed.
Our country has a normal and human response to those in severe need.

I think it somewhere written on the statue of liberty?
bring us your........

joeblack5 wrote:Don , that is still a different discussion.
Countries that are being ripped apart by local and international wars and a lot of innocent people need to get or be killed.
Our country has a normal and human response to those in severe need.

I think it somewhere written on the statue of liberty?
bring us your........

No.........it is not a different discussion. The government and the liberals call them 'undocumented immigrants', I call them illegal. Regardless, our government is allowing it, period. And that is contrary to your statement.

joeblack5 wrote:Don , that is still a different discussion.
Countries that are being ripped apart by local and international wars and a lot of innocent people need to get or be killed.
Our country has a normal and human response to those in severe need.

I think it somewhere written on the statue of liberty?
bring us your........

Yup. And there's nothing on there about,... but only the educated and skilled, is there ?

Paul

Hi Paul, happy thanksgiving,

Great that she with your brothers stepson help was able to apply for a visa.

I think you explain it very well.
Lebanon is not particular a country with high living standards.
She needed someone to help her with an application for a visa.
They dated and married.
She applied for USA citizen ship.

I am happy for them but this does not fit the normal picture of a someone in a foreign country that would like to go to the USA and work there. To start a immigration procedure or even a work visa. Even for a work visa you need to be sponsored by an USA company that has to prove that you have skills that the company can not get from inside the USA.

Paul, Haha you are right educated and skilled right are not

Don , I hope for lot of peoples lives that you are not the guy who is making that decision.

We weren't talking just of people applying for work visas, but of immigrants in general. And legal immigrants at that.

You stated, "The USA does not allow people with average job qualification to come to the USA. We have plenty ourselves." this is not the case and I showed you two examples I know of personally.

You can go to the Gov. immigration website and look for yourself at what the requirements are to get a green card and then citizenship. There's is nothing listed that says immigrants have to have more than "average job qualification to come to the USA." In fact there's nothing about job qualifications needed to get a green card and then citizenship.

Paul

You are right Paul, that is indeed not written there but you will not get a H1b or green card issued just by applying you will at least need an USA sponsor and a lot of money, a lot more then the a mexican illegal immigrant has. If it would be that simple then we would not have illegal immigrants.

But OK
We were talking about immigrants from countries with a higher living standard then the USA.
The dispute was that the USA is the country with the highest living standard and that would explain why so many people (suggested 10X) from countries like germany , denmark, sweden would come to the USA and so few Americans were going to those countries.

You can ask you brothers stepson was was involved in getting his wife legally in the country and if she would have been able to foot that bill by herself?
Then marry an American is the simplest way to become a citizen. Hence the russian / chinese dating sites.

All is good.

This immigration diversion started off with the comments about the stupidity of the German liberals and their solar efforts and how superior our American choices were and that our country is perceived as the one with the highest living standards.

No problem everybody can have his own opinion I just wanted to be sure that every had some more data / information to look at.

It must be clear that our small scale local efficient anthracite burning ( 80%+) is of very little concern if we compare the damage done by strip mining and coal exploitation for the electric industry. ( 35%) If the electric generation by coal can be reduced by using solar and wind then that will be a huge environmental benefit and for whatever small number will reduce heating of the planet. ... whatever you do not burn will not heat ..
With development of solar, wind and battery technology we will have a cheaper, better , cleaner and more reliable way of generating power. Something the military is pushing and implementing .

It was interesting to get to know you all a little better.

Later J

joeblack5 wrote: Regarding the 8 Am 0 degree no solar ......... that is where Elon Musks power wall battery comes in.

You're not thinking these things through, what if it's like that for two weeks? what kind of capacity and storage do you think you would require?

For a simplified example you have bright sunny day and provide enough power for the day. Night rolls around... your capacity requirements just doubled and you need to store half of it. Cloudy the next day? You capacity requirements just quadrupled and you need the means to store 3/4 of it. 2 weeks? LOL.....

Solar is decentralized and a much more secure solution.

Only in an emergency situation and you have prepared yourself which is something you can do without power.