Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

Re: Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:48 pm

Except in the Hudson Valley the sun don't shine and the wind does not blow. That is why I am surrounded by little liberals all with solar roofs who freeze their a$$es off in the winter. My neighbor was cutting his wood last week. Small diameter wet pine trees that he attempts to burn. He then runs around with his log splitter on the back of his tiny JD tractor. I haven't laughed that much since I read we are all doomed as the CO2 level is gone above critical and it's curtains for us. All this smoke and practically no heat.... I will run over there with a blanket when he lights up again and send FF a message.
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Re: Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

PostBy: Richard S. On: Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:13 pm

joeblack5 wrote:If you can save 35 %energy for 80 % of the time then that is a pretty big savings from an energy and pollution standpoint.


Again you are not thinking this through, a very large part of what you pay for electric is the capital investment. This is why coal dominates base power, it's the cheapest fuel which is what you want for something that is expected to run near continuously for the next 6, or 7 decades with some minor downtime for maintenance. As you add the expense of solar you are also increasing the cost of fossil fuel generation as you idle them.

If you want a basic analogy here suppose you have a requirement to drive almost 24/7, this will require a gasoline powered car. Buying an electric car requires a capital expense and since it cannot meet your requirements like the gasoline car you have to keep the gasoline car. The cost per mile attributed to capital investment is now double. This is why electric rates in Germany are so high, it's approaching a dual sytem when one of them and only one of them can meet their needs.



The subsidy questions are not so relevant because they compare generated KWH ( ccoal, nuclear etc ) and renewables KW installed with may be generated to the moment of calculations.


The solar industry disagrees with your assessment.
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/art ... ences.html

Resch laid out an eye-opening scenario if the solar ITC expires: “The reality is that we will lose 100,000 jobs if we lose the ITC — and these are conservative numbers. Ninety percent of solar companies will go out of business.”


I think I'm done here, when you have researched your topic better and can speak on it with knowledge and authority then we can have a discussion.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

PostBy: joeblack5 On: Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:52 pm

Richard, it is amazing to me how you pick your tiny arguments. Even in the article you quote you can read that coal is getting subsidized all along. There capital cost and the raping of land and environment by big coal is subsidized by us the taxpayer. The cost of cleanup , health , pollution are not even calculated.

Indeed you are done with the discussion as big coal should be done and will be done in the next 15 years, at least for electricity generation.

My purpose of this discussion was only to show that different sources show different data, your research shows one and my research shows other.
It is only right to give people both sides of the argument so that they can do their own research are better informed. You do not do that and so I have to counter act your single sided information that you started in this thread.

I do not know if you are in the coal making money industry, I am not in the renewables industry.

Jobs lost in coal and capital investment will be replaced by jobs and capital investment in renewables industry.

There was a time that it was maybe Ok to drain your used motor oil in the gutter. That time is gone you have to accept that technology goes forward and so does technology, needs and requirements.

Countries with higher living standards do it already and take the benefits of it. So if you can don it without losing or even improving your standard of living you have to research again and see where you go wrong. If you are just plain unwilling to see the advantages and you really want the USA to get further behind the keep preaching the coal song.
joeblack5
 

Re: Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

PostBy: joeblack5 On: Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:10 pm

Here is another bunch of small liberals. Haha no clue if they were liberal but just saying

Rudolf Diesel & Henry Ford Ford quotes on bio-fuels

Rudolph Diesel, 1912: "The use of vegetable oils for engine fuels may seem insignificant today, but such oils may become in the course of time as important as the petroleum and coal tar products of the present time."

Henry Ford, 1925: "The fuel of the future is going to come from fruit like that sumac out by the road, or from apples, weeds, sawdust - almost anything. There is fuel in every bit of vegetable matter that can be fermented. There's enough alcohol in one year's yield of an acre of potatoes to drive the machinery necessary to cultivate the fields for a hundred years."

Thomas Edison ( 1847-1931) “I’d put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don’t have to wait ’til oil and coal run out before we tackle that.”


Regarding the electric car. I bought it with 13 X 12 volt lead acid batteries . 13X61 lbs= 793 Lbs for a 40 mile range
nissan leaf close to 500 lbs range 120 miles.
My daily use is not further then 40 miles, so I might reduce the battery capacity in favor of weight but at a loss of lifetime.

The solectria mainly get more miles per charge then the nissan leaf mainly because its lower weight and lack of electric windows and such. The original gas version of the geo metro was a very fuel efficient car with some people claiming 50Mpg.

Regarding clouds, state college is pretty cloudy, germany is not any better.

The technical solution for more remote residences will be solar/ wind, geothermal, a battery ban for two days and a microgen backup generator and local micro-grids with a couple of close neighbors if that is useful.
For towns people it will be a lot more efficient because of the proximity of the residences.

The more or less remote location we use for electric generation with coal and the resulting transmission losses and lack of possibilities to reuse the heat should be gone and will be if the subsidies for coal are shut off.
joeblack5
 

Re: Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

PostBy: Richard S. On: Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:54 pm

joeblack5 wrote: Richard, it is amazing to me how you pick your tiny arguments.


Joe you can categorize them as tiny if you wish, I will call them facts that dispute your arguments.

big coal is subsidized by us the taxpayer.


Coal receives about 1 billion a year in tax breaks, mostly on pollution controls they have installed. In 2013 the renewable energy sector as a whole received about 15 billion and to be fair 8.5 billion of that was part of ARRA, most of this subsidy is for production. This report originally came out for 2010 and again for 2013. Note the date of publication is 2015. It's not a frequent report and it just includes the direct federal subsidies.

http://www.eia.gov/analysis/requests/su ... ubsidy.pdf

That doesn't paint the whole picture because what you need to look at is the subsidy per unit of production. Roughly speaking It's about 40 cents per MWh for coal or about 40 cents on the average homeowners bill each month. The federal subsidy for solar per MWh is $25+ or about 6200% more.


The cost of cleanup , health , pollution are not even calculated.


Cleanup what? Firstly they are required by law to reclaim the property they are actively mining.

Secondly every ton of coal that is mined in this country has a fee applied to it that is used to reclaim abandoned mining sites that might have existed long before any of us were even alive. These sites were created long before we had regulations in place requiring mining companies to reclaim land. Note I didn't categorize what type of mine, these would include coal, copper, gold, silver and on down the list.

I love my analogies, in this case it would be like requiring Ford, GM and Chrysler to cleanup the properties of the hundreds of car manufacturers that existed at the turn of the last century and while we are at we'll have them pay for cleaning up abandoned RR and shipyards.

While it's not a great example because of the colossal failure of the EPA it is one that most people would be familiar with. That mitigation project in Colorado at that gold mine was primarily funded by the coal mining industry.

As far as pollution goes the coal industry has decreased air pollutants in the 50 to 95 percent range depending on the pollutant. We have reached the point of diminishing returns long ago.

Las t but not least what is often overlooked is the health benefits of cheap energy. The core block in the foundation of any modern society is energy, that is what separates us from third world countries.

Indeed you are done with the discussion as big coal should be done and will be done in the next 15 years, at least for electricity generation.


Your assertions are now bordering on absurd. The current fleet of coal plants are newer some of which are still under construction. They are in a sense assets to US consumers and can only be scrapped at substantial lost of capital investment and the costs to replace them. In addition to that Trump is now in charge with a friendly Congress controlled by Republicans. I don't know what is going to happen but what I can assure you of is this, they won't be trying to pass an energy bill like the Democrats did when they had the chance that Boehner characterized as the "most profound piece of legislation that has come to this floor in the last 100 years".

That is not an exaggeration and it would of made the failure of Obamacare look like chicken feed. Fortunately it died in the Senate and this is very important which leads me to the point. What most people do not realize is that much of what has been done under the Obama administration that he considers accomplishments was done unilaterally without the support of Congress including a lot of environmental policy. There is no permanency and if need be his legacy will be erased and it will be no ones fault but his own. Obama is famous for the quote"I have a pen and I have a phone." ...Well guess what, Trump has his own pen and phone. Most of what he has done can simply slip into oblivion with a wave of Trump's pen.


Jobs lost in coal and capital investment will be replaced by jobs and capital investment in renewables industry.


You are going to replace jobs that average about $80K nationally with some guy sweeping a warehouse floor filled with solar panels made in China. Ironically manufactured with electric primarily derived from coal and effectively subsidized by the US taxpayer.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:02 pm

Regarding the electric car. I bought it with 13 X 12 volt lead acid batteries . 13X61 lbs= 793 Lbs for a 40 mile range
nissan leaf close to 500 lbs range 120 miles.
My daily use is not further then 40 miles, so I might reduce the battery capacity in favor of weight but at a loss of lifetime.


Hmm, at State College .. so when you get in your freezing cold car Dec to April and turn on the heat it will reduce the range considerably. Make sure you have a second charger at the front gate so you can make it down to the beer store. You sound like a Maine playboy I know. hahahahaaha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdCfZQsZEHQ

Translation for the linguistically impaired ... He said "I am a German so can't repair this swiss piece of *censored*, so when the heater went ti ts up I took this old wood burner and put it in my car - fck da police!"
coalnewbie
 
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Re: Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

PostBy: joeblack5 On: Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:22 pm

Haha, what a cool find.
yes range can go down in the cold weather.
The batteries are insulated and have heaters that keep them warm enough.
The advantage of electric is that your defrost and heat works immediately because you do not need to wait for the engine to heat up.
You can start your car of course 15 minutes in advance to get the same result.
Since mine is still connected to the solar forklift battery I can turn the electric heat on a couple of minutes in advance.
Thanks for the video.
joeblack5
 

Re: Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:43 pm

FYI, many gas and diesel cars and trucks have high output alternators that can easily handle the electric defrosters - both front and rear - in addition to electrically heated seats they come with, so that advantage is a wash. My Ford Taurus heats and defrosts the windshield starting within seconds of pressing the switch - even with the engine off.

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
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