Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

Re: Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

PostBy: Pacowy On: Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:23 pm

dennis8483 wrote:Like I said from the beginning, Anthropogenic Climate Change may be incorrect. I accept the data and evidence.


Try Googling "IPCC forecast vs actual graph". All such comparisons that I have seen show that for a period of time before about 1998 there was an apparent correlation between CO2 levels and temperatures. That was the data timeframe from which the early models were developed. Beginning around 1998 the actual temperature change basically flatlined, while the CO2 concentration accelerated. To an analyst, that undermines the entire proposition that there ever was a meaningful causal relationship - as opposed to a simple correlation - between CO2 and temperature change. In fact, for most of the past 15 years, the actual temperature has fallen below the IPCC forecasts, with the 2 following completely different trend lines. If you accept the data and evidence, you'll get a better understanding of why the proponents of anthropogenic climate change give you the rhetoric and scare tactics, but not the data and evidence.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

PostBy: wsherrick On: Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:15 pm

dennis8483 wrote:Franco, thanks for showing everyone what you know about science. Science and data doesnt require belief. Religion requires belief... the acceptance without evidence. Science requires acceptance of the data. It is still possible to be uncertain with conclusions drawn from that data.

On that note, so far, all any one of you has presented is an article on hacked emails, a few anecdotal stories, and cherry-picking. None of it was independently verified or replicated. Was it even taken in context?

Like I said from the beginning, Anthropogenic Climate Change may be incorrect. I accept the data and evidence. It has been shown to be statistically significant, and to be increasing in significance with more research over the course of decades. Predictions have been made by scientists. Those predictions have been tested and shown to be statistically significant. Not only have the "evidence" that you guys posted not replicated or verified, those who have presented that evidence have yet to make or test predictions based on that evidence. I hope climate change is wrong, but the research and technology developments alone would prove beneficial to future problems and sustainability. That's kinda how science has benefited human civilization since... science began. I wouldnt support forced changes because there isnt a better option. I do support research and technology, especially when the possibility of the what-ifs are extreme (good or bad). The same should be true for other areas of science, space, biology, medical, etc.


If you accepted the actual data and evidence. You would wonder why all of the fraud. Proven fraud. Not alleged fraud. Why the change in terms? the rhetoric of the Climate Alarmists is ever changing. First there would be no more snow, then they say all of this snow proves it. Drought proves it. Floods prove it. Everything proves it.
No rational mind accepts this. No way.
The actual facts are: The Earth is not warming. The Oceans are not rising. There is no marked increase in violent storms or hurricanes. Every single predication uttered by these fanatics has been and will be proven wrong.
Therefore, it can be surmised that their crack pot theories are wrong.
And yet it's always more research to find the missing heat. More millions out of the taxpayer pocket, more regulation, more destruction of personal freedom. More destruction of individual enterprise.
However, Obama's solar energy buddies are making a killing aren't they? We will be stopped burning coal, but; we'll sell it to the Chinese. More poverty, scarcity, lack and high prices for the average person. Plenty for the Corporate/Political Oligarchs though via peddling this Climate Change nonsense.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

PostBy: wsherrick On: Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:38 pm

So here is the type of :D Scientist you say has credibility?
It's cold because of Global Warming. Seriously? This person is from the UN Climate Panel.

wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size


Re: Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

PostBy: dennis8483 On: Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:02 am

Pacowy wrote:
dennis8483 wrote:Like I said from the beginning, Anthropogenic Climate Change may be incorrect. I accept the data and evidence.


Try Googling "IPCC forecast vs actual graph". All such comparisons that I have seen show that for a period of time before about 1998 there was an apparent correlation between CO2 levels and temperatures. That was the data timeframe from which the early models were developed. Beginning around 1998 the actual temperature change basically flatlined, while the CO2 concentration accelerated. To an analyst, that undermines the entire proposition that there ever was a meaningful causal relationship - as opposed to a simple correlation - between CO2 and temperature change. In fact, for most of the past 15 years, the actual temperature has fallen below the IPCC forecasts, with the 2 following completely different trend lines. If you accept the data and evidence, you'll get a better understanding of why the proponents of anthropogenic climate change give you the rhetoric and scare tactics, but not the data and evidence.

Mike



I did look at it quick. The trend of temperatures still fits their prediction models. Little towards the lower end, but still fits the model. As for temp and CO2, try a quick google search on "CO2 and temperature correlation graph". Every graph shown fits the expected models, all the way up til 2010 and beyond. The only exception is a graph produced by Australian senator. Hardly a scientist.
dennis8483
 
Other Heating: Propane

Re: Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:35 am

Say what you want about the science, but my heating bills say the climate isn't warming.

And, the average person is finding it very hard to swallow the science when there's so much controversy attached to it, . . as they write out ever larger check amounts for heating their homes and businesses. That's their scientific proof it's highly likely that it's a sham.

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

PostBy: Pacowy On: Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:10 am

dennis8483 wrote:I did look at it quick.


It sounds like you looked a little too quickly. If the projections matched the flat line that has occurred no doom would be predicted and people could focus on actual problems instead of outdated illusions from inaccurate models.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

PostBy: dennis8483 On: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:04 pm

Pacowy wrote:
dennis8483 wrote:I did look at it quick.


It sounds like you looked a little too quickly. If the projections matched the flat line that has occurred no doom would be predicted and people could focus on actual problems instead of outdated illusions from inaccurate models.

Mike



Look for yourself... all versions of the same data show the trend fitting the model. Except for one graph produced by an Australian Senator....

https://www.google.com/search?q=IPCC+fo ... 34&dpr=0.9
dennis8483
 
Other Heating: Propane

Re: Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

PostBy: carlherrnstein On: Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:48 pm

Have you ever heard of solar variation? The spot that my house is situated has been glaciated at least twice in the last 100,000 years. The well drillers that made my well found 5' of top soil at a depth of 30' and under that, 20' of cobbles consistent with the material found in terminal moraines. The earth always has and will continue to go through cycles of warming and cooling regardless of our actions.

Have you ever read the book The Population Bomb?

Have you ever heard of the big lie theory?

Either the effects of global warming, global cooling, climate change are blown way out of proportions, or its some kind of ploy to control the population.
carlherrnstein
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: combustioneer model 77B
Coal Size/Type: pea stoker/Ohio bituminous

Re: Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:52 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:Say what you want about the science, but my heating bills say the climate isn't warming.

And, the average person is finding it very hard to swallow the science when there's so much controversy attached to it, . . as they write out ever larger check amounts for heating their homes and businesses. That's their scientific proof it's highly likely that it's a sham.

Paul

Check this out. About to surpass the two coldest years making 2014 the coldest start in recorded history. It is May tomorrow and shipping needs icebreakers in the Great Lakes due to record thick ice.
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014 ... s-history/
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

PostBy: Pacowy On: Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:31 pm

dennis8483 wrote:Look for yourself... all versions of the same data show the trend fitting the model. Except for one graph produced by an Australian Senator....


Not sure who the Australian senator is, but all of the graphs I have seen that plot the IPCC forecasts against recognized, published temperature data series (from multiple independent sources) show the actual numbers below and to the right of the IPCC forecasts. The numbers that do track the IPCC pattern are the CO2 concentrations and that is the point - CO2 has escalated fairly rapidly but the temperatures have not followed even as much as the "low impact" IPCC forecasts. Some of this is covered in - http://clivebest.com/blog/?p=2208 .

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

PostBy: wsherrick On: Sat May 03, 2014 12:48 am

Well, I guess that is the end of that.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

PostBy: tsb On: Sat May 03, 2014 7:29 am

Food fights always end sooner or later !
tsb
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Binford 2000
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Pioneer top vent
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey Hanover II

Re: Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

PostBy: blrman07 On: Sat May 03, 2014 8:44 am

Aww just when it was getting good. Bring up about too much ice endangering the polar bears, cooling being caused by sun spot activity called a solar minimum, documentation that the earth goes through these cycles about every 10K years and everybody quits.

Now what am I going to read that I don't understand and really don't care about but find amusing anyway?

Rev. Larry
New Beginning Church
Ashland Pa.
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant Casting 2310
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Re: Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Mon May 05, 2014 5:08 pm

Don' give up yet Rev - there's more to come, . . . .

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-dire-climat ... 37606.html

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Fossil Fuel Survialist Guide for the Sane: Part 1 Common BS

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Mon May 05, 2014 5:24 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:Don' give up yet Rev - there's more to come, . . . .

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-dire-climat ... 37606.html

Paul

More fear mongering to distract us from his failures.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea