Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:23 pm

Northern Maine wrote:
Do you agree with anyone other than yourself?! :P


The prevailing philosophy has brought us to bankruptcy.

Ever consider YOU might be wrong? :D
jpete
 
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Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: lsayre On: Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:35 pm

If we had let the bubble economy deflate to the full extent that it should have, and if we had left troubled businesses to fail as they should have (with new owners picking up the most productive pieces [meaning here both equipment and labor] and running with them, as would assuredly have happened), we would be well on the road to a robust and honest recovery by now. Instead we are trying to do an end run on honesty and use deception and trickery in order to achieve a recovery.

The answer to inflation is deflation. Loads of inflation require equal and opposite loads of deflation. We have had loads of inflation. It's imperative that we now deflate. The only problem here is that by its very soul and nature fiat currency and fractional reserve (margin leveraged) banking must always inflate.
lsayre
 
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Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: Davian On: Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:01 pm

Because the price of gas hasn't gone up due to inflation. Its gone up due to supply/demand with a good chunk of speculation added in.

The current price of fuel has very little to do with inflation.

$5 gas is bad because it means everything costs more which means our money doesnt go as far.
Davian
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Morso
Stove/Furnace Model: 1410 Squirrel


Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:48 pm

Davian wrote:Because the price of gas hasn't gone up due to inflation. Its gone up due to supply/demand with a good chunk of speculation added in.

The current price of fuel has very little to do with inflation.

$5 gas is bad because it means everything costs more which means our money doesnt go as far.


Demand is so far down that about 3 years ago, the US became a net exporter.
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
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Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:38 pm

jpete wrote:
Davian wrote:Because the price of gas hasn't gone up due to inflation. Its gone up due to supply/demand with a good chunk of speculation added in.

The current price of fuel has very little to do with inflation.

$5 gas is bad because it means everything costs more which means our money doesnt go as far.


Demand is so far down that about 3 years ago, the US became a net exporter.



Fuel prices are also influenced by the decreased refinery capacity in the US as well plus the costs are higher extracting the oil. A lot of the refined fuel we use is imported because we do not have the capacity thanks to the tree hugger's that think if the pollution is done in someone else's back yard it doesn't effect us here in the US. A lot of the oil we extract here is also done by non US companies or US companies with overseas backers just like the gas industry.
Flyer5
 
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Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:39 pm

Fuel prices, and the cost to get it out of the ground is influenced by the Fed printing dollars out of thin air.

I don't care how much tap dancing you do, the root cause is the Fed devaluing the currency.

Accept it or don't. It doesn't matter to me. History and current events tell me I'm right.
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
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Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:57 pm

jpete wrote:Fuel prices, and the cost to get it out of the ground is influenced by the Fed printing dollars out of thin air.

I don't care how much tap dancing you do, the root cause is the Fed devaluing the currency.

Accept it or don't. It doesn't matter to me. History and current events tell me I'm right.


Please convey the history and current events that tell you your right, so that we may better understand your statement! ;)
Northern Maine
 
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Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:18 pm

Northern Maine wrote:
jpete wrote:Fuel prices, and the cost to get it out of the ground is influenced by the Fed printing dollars out of thin air.

I don't care how much tap dancing you do, the root cause is the Fed devaluing the currency.

Accept it or don't. It doesn't matter to me. History and current events tell me I'm right.


Please convey the history and current events that tell you your right, so that we may better understand your statement! ;)


Every fiat currency fails spectacularly. Compare that to the thousands of years hard currency survives until corrupt politicians debase it.

Look at Japan's "Lost Decade" which is now going into it's third decade. The did everything we are now doing yet we somehow expect a different result.

Historically, in this country, we're on at least our third version of fiat currency. The soldiers at Valley Forge didn't suffer because there was no supplies to be had. It was as Gen. Washington said "a wagon load of dollars will scarcely buy a wagon load of provisions". The continental dollar wasn't worth the paper it was printed on. In an economy, bad money always chase out good. People saved their gold and spent the worthless paper money.

It was the same story in the Civil War as greenbacks were printed to pay for that war.

For an extreme example, look at Zimbabwe where people won't even stop to pick up a $10,000 note lying in the street because it won't buy anything.

Back when a quarter was still mostly silver, you could buy a gallon of gas with it. That same quarter today is worth about $6 so you can almost buy two gallons of gas. That's pretty close to 100% inflation isn't it?

But the fiat quarter that looks like the real thing but has no value will but you less than 1/12 of a gallon of gas.

Look at it another way. If the "price" of a "thing" is the cost of materials plus labor plus profit then consider the US $1 coin. The "price" is $1 but the cost to produce is only about 13 cents. So the Fed is making 87 cents profit on every dollar. Not a bad gig if you can get it. :)
jpete
 
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Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:09 am

jpete wrote:Fuel prices, and the cost to get it out of the ground is influenced by the Fed printing dollars out of thin air.

I don't care how much tap dancing you do, the root cause is the Fed devaluing the currency.

Accept it or don't. It doesn't matter to me. History and current events tell me I'm right.


Their are many influences at play with every product on the market. I never stated my explanation was all there was to the price of oil, lots of influences come into play. My reasoning was to point out we will never become an independent country till we build more refineries. And really drill our own oil not hire another country to do it. The price of getting it out of the ground has also increased because the easy oil is almost gone not only the value of the dollar. Deep water horizon is an example of what they are willing to spend and risk to get it.
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
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Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: samhill On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:21 am

Flyer, if refining were the problem rather than price on the world market why would we be exporting refined & importing crude? http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... ast-year/1
http://www.politicususa.com/2012/01/02/ ... xport.html This one tells you where it is sold & who makes more profit for more drilling.
samhill
 
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Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: Davian On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:49 am

jpete wrote:
Davian wrote:Because the price of gas hasn't gone up due to inflation. Its gone up due to supply/demand with a good chunk of speculation added in.

The current price of fuel has very little to do with inflation.

$5 gas is bad because it means everything costs more which means our money doesnt go as far.


Demand is so far down that about 3 years ago, the US became a net exporter.


A net exporter of refined gasoline, not raw oil...huge, huge difference.
Davian
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Morso
Stove/Furnace Model: 1410 Squirrel

Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: lsayre On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:57 am

Davian wrote:A net exporter of refined gasoline, not raw oil...huge, huge difference.


Shush, don't spoil it for the dreamers.
lsayre
 
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Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: jpete On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:25 am

Davian wrote:
jpete wrote:
Davian wrote:Because the price of gas hasn't gone up due to inflation. Its gone up due to supply/demand with a good chunk of speculation added in.

The current price of fuel has very little to do with inflation.

$5 gas is bad because it means everything costs more which means our money doesnt go as far.


Demand is so far down that about 3 years ago, the US became a net exporter.


A net exporter of refined gasoline, not raw oil...huge, huge difference.


But your argument was that we didn't have enough refining capacity. We apparently have enough to meet demand plus ship some out of the country.
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
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Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: Davian On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:15 pm

jpete wrote:But your argument was that we didn't have enough refining capacity. We apparently have enough to meet demand plus ship some out of the country.


That definitely wasn't my argument.

Though more refineries isn't a bad thing considering that having some slack in any system is a good idea for planning...especially when most refineries are in hurricane zones. Running at near 100% capacity is not really a good idea.
Davian
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Morso
Stove/Furnace Model: 1410 Squirrel

Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: jpete On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:48 pm

Davian wrote:
jpete wrote:But your argument was that we didn't have enough refining capacity. We apparently have enough to meet demand plus ship some out of the country.


That definitely wasn't my argument.

Though more refineries isn't a bad thing considering that having some slack in any system is a good idea for planning...especially when most refineries are in hurricane zones. Running at near 100% capacity is not really a good idea.


My mistake again.

It was Flyer5 that spoke about refining capacity.
jpete
 
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