Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: Davian On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:14 pm

jpete wrote:
Davian wrote:
jpete wrote:But your argument was that we didn't have enough refining capacity. We apparently have enough to meet demand plus ship some out of the country.


That definitely wasn't my argument.

Though more refineries isn't a bad thing considering that having some slack in any system is a good idea for planning...especially when most refineries are in hurricane zones. Running at near 100% capacity is not really a good idea.


My mistake again.

It was Flyer5 that spoke about refining capacity.


Overall though, the "No new oil refineries in 30 years" talking point is a BS one. Yes, we havent built any new refineries. We have, however, massively increased production abilities at the current refineries. We went from around 300 refineries in 1980 to 150 refineries today but production has increased overall. People get caught up on the overall # of refineries while ignoring the raise in production capability.
Davian
 
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Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: jpete On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:25 pm

I know I made a lot of parts for oil refinery's over the past 10 years. :)
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Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:16 pm

jpete wrote:
Davian wrote:
jpete wrote:But your argument was that we didn't have enough refining capacity. We apparently have enough to meet demand plus ship some out of the country.


That definitely wasn't my argument.

Though more refineries isn't a bad thing considering that having some slack in any system is a good idea for planning...especially when most refineries are in hurricane zones. Running at near 100% capacity is not really a good idea.


My mistake again.

It was Flyer5 that spoke about refining capacity.



Yep, it was me. I may be wrong but I am going by what I have been told not what I have read. It seems like we lose 1 or more refineries for more than a week it causes major disruptions in supply. I think its more complicated than saying we can refine enough to export so we must be able to refine enough for ourselves. We also import a lot of refined product, not sure what the ratios are to each product . It may be just a swap ex heating oil for gasoline. I am not sure how it all works. Besides I wasn't looking for a debate just stating their were other things that factor in to the price of oil besides what was stated.
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Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: samhill On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:54 pm

A friend of mine that went on the East Coast to work for Sun Oil (I think) said his refinery shut down but it was to convert to NG liquidfication from what he was told, he's retired as well but still lives there & I,m just going by that. According to him it's what several are doing.
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Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: Davian On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:03 pm

samhill wrote:A friend of mine that went on the East Coast to work for Sun Oil (I think) said his refinery shut down but it was to convert to NG liquidfication from what he was told, he's retired as well but still lives there & I,m just going by that. According to him it's what several are doing.


NG liquidfication is the future of cheap fuel...kinda makes sense to convert some more refineries to it...especially with the massive expansion in fracking (which will likely drive our economy in the next couple decades).
Davian
 
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Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: Davian On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:06 pm

Flyer5 wrote:
Yep, it was me. I may be wrong but I am going by what I have been told not what I have read. It seems like we lose 1 or more refineries for more than a week it causes major disruptions in supply. I think its more complicated than saying we can refine enough to export so we must be able to refine enough for ourselves. We also import a lot of refined product, not sure what the ratios are to each product . It may be just a swap ex heating oil for gasoline. I am not sure how it all works. Besides I wasn't looking for a debate just stating their were other things that factor in to the price of oil besides what was stated.


I think but am not sure that it has to do with the different blends they need and it being easier to import some of them rather than retool our own refineries...for things like fuel oil. It also depends on the source crude as some are harder to refine than others (Venezuelan oil, IIRC, is very sulfur heavy, etc etc).

Refineries typically run at around 80% capacity overall...but in reality its more like 98-100% when you factor in maintenance cycles and whatnot. Its very efficient for take home profits for Big Oil but blows royally for us the customers as there is no surplus capacity...something they've deliberately built into their economic model the same as the airlines cutting routes to ensure all their flights are as close to 100% full as possible.
Davian
 
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Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:11 pm

Davian wrote:
samhill wrote:A friend of mine that went on the East Coast to work for Sun Oil (I think) said his refinery shut down but it was to convert to NG liquidfication from what he was told, he's retired as well but still lives there & I,m just going by that. According to him it's what several are doing.


NG liquidfication is the future of cheap fuel...kinda makes sense to convert some more refineries to it...especially with the massive expansion in fracking (which will likely drive our economy in the next couple decades).




I agree they are starting to add some NG infrastructure or at least planning on it in the very near future. Talk of 2 NG power stations. Also some automotive filling stations nearby but they will be compressed Nat gas not liquid.
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Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: lsayre On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:17 pm

Liquefied natural gas is one dangerous puppy.
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Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: Davian On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:21 pm

lsayre wrote:Liquefied natural gas is one dangerous puppy.


Definitely some safety concerns but they can be dealt with...its a great bridge product until they can expand our current natural gas pipelines to more remote areas.
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Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: samhill On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:40 pm

Or they can ship it to Europe from the East Coast.
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Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: ruger1980 On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:25 pm

CNG is inexpensive

LNG is expensive and logistically a impractical
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Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: Davian On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:27 pm

ruger1980 wrote:CNG is inexpensive

LNG is expensive and logistically a impractical


You are right...and I was confusing the two. I was thinking of CNG with my comments above, not LNG.
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Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: ruger1980 On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:42 pm

CNG is still only practical in certain areas and applications. For me it would never work due the vast areas I travel.
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Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: freetown fred On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:44 pm

ruger, check your PM's
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Re: Ongoing questions about Obama's birth certificate

PostBy: Davian On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:47 pm

ruger1980 wrote:CNG is still only practical in certain areas and applications. For me it would never work due the vast areas I travel.


There are definitely limitations on it but it could easily be used to massively cut back on gasoline consumption in urban areas and for heating.
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