New to the Forum, New to Coal

Thanks for all the help. I called the fireplace gallery and I told Dan my situation and he Also recommended the boiler ., I'm assuming I should get one with an augur. There's a room adjacent to the boiler room I will store the coal and fabricate a schute for easy coal dumping. As for heating both apartments shower water I'm not sure how it will be handled.

I'm sure your plumber will have a good plan to use the coal boiler hot water exchanged to the hot water tanks you currently have.

traderfjp wrote:You must have a really old and ineffecient boiler. How is your hot water made? I have a stoker and love it but if you have two seperate apartments then you're going to need two stokers or better yet as mentioned a coal boiler. I would however look at getting a propane or electric HWH so you don't have to run the coal boiler all summer long. Also, do you have a place to stock pile coal?

Why would you not run a coal boiler all year long it is better for the boiler to run it all year long. Plus in most area's it would be far cheaper to burn coal then Propane or electric for DHW . Right now I am using 15.50lbs per day which is costing me .93 cents a day to heat my hot water that is 6.51 a week or 26.04 a month. which with a few adjustments I will be down to 9.47.5 lbs per which will bring my cost down to .56 cents a day or 3.92 a week 15.68 a month .
My coal cost 6 cents a lb . Show me where Propane or electric is cheaper not around my area .

I guess it depends on how much HW you use in the summer. Currently I use about 10 gallons of oil a month for 4 adults which comes out to $22.00. I just think it would be a nice break not to have to worry about adding coal and removing ash for several months. If the cost is close to equal or even a bit more I would prefer not to deal with coal. Another alternative is to use several inexpensive poly solar panels and let the sun do the work in the summer. I'm thinking of doing this myself but I would still need oil as a backup.

traderfjp wrote:I guess it depends on how much HW you use in the summer. Currently I use about 10 gallons of oil a month for 4 adults which comes out to $22.00. I just think it would be a nice break not to have to worry about adding coal and removing ash for several months. If the cost is close to equal or even a bit more I would prefer not to deal with coal. Another alternative is to use several inexpensive poly solar panels and let the sun do the work in the summer. I'm thinking if doing this myself but I would still need oil as a backup.

with a coal boiler it is better to run it all year long it will extend the life of the boiler letting water sitting in one all summer long is not good for the boiler Rusty water and corroding is not good for the steel .

MichaelPhillip wrote: I'm assuming I should get one with an augur.

The Auger ones are considerably more.

As for heating both apartments shower water I'm not sure how it will be handled.

There's a few ways you can do it, most of the coils can produce enough hot water so you can simply make it the hot water supply but the issue there is it's so hot you'll need to add a mixing valve. If you have alot of demand for hot water like two people taking a shower at once it may not keep up.

So....... you can get a electric hot water heater and simply run the hot water through the coil first before it goes into the hot water tank.

The other option is creating a thermosiphon loop which could be used with either a hot water heater or just a storage tank. That way you'll have X amount of hot water on hand plus whatever is made on demand.

Most coal boiler if not all of them have 3.5 to 5 GPM some even up to 7 GMP hot water coil EFM's have 5 & 7 GMP coils
AA 130 are 3.5 GPM AA 260 are 5 GMP Hard to Run out of hot water with 5 & 7 Gallons Per Minutes being made .
even with 4 people in the house. The other day one was doing the dishes the cloth washer was on one was getting
a shower the other was washing hands bushing teeth using the sink and we still never ran out of hot water . Would not worry to much about running out of DHW with a 5 or 7 GPM coil .

There's only 3 people in the house currently 2 up 1 down, so I'm hoping I don't have to supplement heating the water by other means. How much am I looking to spend on a boiler to heat both the water upstairs and down including using an auger. Most sites don't list prices and I have had no time to stop at a supplier. I went to the fireplace gallery at 9am and they were closed

Well like I said the Keystokers start in the $5k range. The prices are set by the dealers so you might find a few different ones. You can add 2 or 3K for auger fed unit. You could get a used one, there's a few people that refurbish them. They last for decades and after a little sprucing up will last for many more decades.

I was price shopping today for anthracite coal boilers. I called Heet Inc. http://www.heetinc.com/Keystoker.html for a price on a new KAA-2. They gave me a price at $3959.00 + $150.00 for freight + tax. I also called Axeman-Anderson. They gave me a price for the AA130 for $8055.00 and the AA260 for $10,542.00.

DOUG wrote:I was price shopping today for anthracite coal boilers. I called Heet Inc. http://www.heetinc.com/Keystoker.html for a price on a new KAA-2. They gave me a price at $3959.00 + $150.00 for freight + tax. I also called Axeman-Anderson. They gave me a price for the AA130 for $8055.00 and the AA260 for $10,542.00.

Well I saw a plumber working at my sisters bakery, he was talking about the auger system so thats why I mentioned it. However, if it's thousands more for an auger system, I just don't think I can afford that, plus, I really don't mind having to go down there year round to fill it and empty the ashes. Hopefully I will have time after work today to talk to another person about my situation and get some prices

Are the boilers as cost efficient as stokers? Another guy suggested one stoker for each apartment and continue to have oil heat my water. Maybe I should have someone inspect the situation

I also think a boiler is the way to go. Living in coal country there should be plenty of plumbers with experience with coal boilers.

The first thing I would do is get the heat loss of that house down to a reasonable level. Any money spent on additional insulation is worth while. Then get rid of one oil boiler. Pipe the remaining boiler to handle both zones with separate circulators. Add the coal boiler and another circulator to move its heat to the remaining boiler.

I think this would be the cheapest and simplest way to go. The circulators would have to be wired to run automatically in the case of overheating to dump excess heat. Also there would only be two boilers connected to the flue instead of three. Also I would select a small stoker for safety reasons. As Richard pointed out the fire goes out quickly in case of power failure.

Of course you could get rid of both oil boilers and just use the stoker. I do like the idea though of having the option of having two systems. Any problem with one system you will have back up at least partially.

Richard

MichaelPhillip wrote:Are the boilers as cost efficient as stokers?

I don't think either is better or worse. When getting something like this you need to take into consideration what's best for your circumstances. If you already have hot water baseboard then definitely a boiler.

MichaelPhillip wrote:Another guy suggested one stoker for each apartment and continue to have oil heat my wate

That will cost you just as much as Keystoker boiler plus you still need to distribute the heat and now you have two units to service. If you settle on a hot air stoker get one large one and either put it in the first floor or basement and use a cold air return to circulate..

I think you would be much better off with a boiler. You'll basically have a comfortable even heat and hot water. With a stoker it will not heat your water unless you install a coil (another 1k for the coil and install) and then the heat is warmest in the room that the stove is in and the rooms furthest from the stove are colder. Also.,You’ll only have one appliance to worry about. It's a much better deal. If you don't use much heat you can close it down in the summer months and just run a regular hot water heater and take a break from the daily maintenance.