Congress’ health care bill, H.R. 3200

Re: Congress’ health care bill, H.R. 3200

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:17 am

mikeandgerry wrote:
As I see it, there is nothing wrong with the current system that must be fixed by an unconstitutional socialist take over of 17% of the economy.


How is medicare not socialist? We should get rid of that too. Why should we pay the health care bills of people who were not responsible enough during their working lives to save enough for their old age?

Let old people spend their savings for doctors bills. If they don't have savings then well they should have saved more when they were younger. It's not our problem. Or maybe their kids can pay for their health care.
ErikLaurence
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Reading Lehigh
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Re: Congress’ health care bill, H.R. 3200

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:53 am

ErikLaurence wrote:
Black_And_Blue wrote:The H.C. bill is not about your health, it's yet another Ponzi scheme to steal your Liberty.


This is the kind of hyperbole that is not really productive.

The "Patriot" act was a far greater attack on our liberty than any of the half dozen unfinished pieces of legislation that are kicking around about health care. It's just that the Patriot act was not proposed by Barack Obama.


It helps to think beyond the two party system, We all have been trapped by its spell for too long.
Black_And_Blue
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska 140

Re: Congress’ health care bill, H.R. 3200

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:08 am

Black_And_Blue wrote:
It helps to think beyond the two party system, We all have been trapped by its spell for too long.


Do understand that there is no health care bill yet?

You're opposing something which has yet to be defined.

Since the the bill has yet to be defined you can't be opposing it on the merits (which do not yet exist).

Therefore you can only be opposing it because of the people who are behind it. That my friend, is as partisan as it gets.
ErikLaurence
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Reading Lehigh
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Re: Congress’ health care bill, H.R. 3200

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:30 am

ErikLaurence wrote:You're opposing something which has yet to be defined.

It is pretty clearly defined as another government takeover of our lives, it is just the details of it that are clearly covered in mud.
coaledsweat
 
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Re: Congress’ health care bill, H.R. 3200

PostBy: rberq On: Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:53 am

coaledsweat wrote:It is pretty clearly defined as another government takeover of our lives....

The financial part of your healthcare life has already been taken over by the horrendously-complicated maze of public and private providers and insurers. If you are lucky enough to have REALLY good insurance, then you will get by OK as long as you don't lose that insurance for any of many possible reasons. And if you lose it, then a simple hospital stay could cost you your house or a big chunk of your retirement savings. A major accident or illness will bankrupt you, even if you are a millionaire.

In any case, you are paying way too much for the insurance you have, because directly and indirectly the premiums are supporting those who on paper do not have coverage like yours. It's a system that has been tweaked and jury-rigged and co-opted by the greedy so that it cries out for reform. The only question is, what reform?
rberq
 
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Re: Congress’ health care bill, H.R. 3200

PostBy: samhill On: Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:00 am

I see this as clearly an issue of haves & have nots, during the debates both sides wanted hcr & had simular ideas but now I don`t think the republican side would agree with BO even if he proposed their plan (that they don`t have). The people that have health care thats co. provided (even if its considered part of their wages) don`t want any change, but if their job was suddenly gone I think their tune would change. The ones that cry about Gov. have no problem driving down a Gov. road & crossing Gov. bridges surely paid for with tax dollars but if not for Gov. wouldn`t be there. If everything was left to private enterprise if you had a road their would be a toll (much like toll gate Ed would like). But then again what would you be using to pay that toll, a chicken perhaps. Gov. for good or bad is involved in everything there is no health care reform bill yet but everyone is being put in a panic by those that think they have too much to lose. Sure the system is broken but I`m making a buck so who cares.
samhill
 
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Re: Congress’ health care bill, H.R. 3200

PostBy: cabinover On: Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:31 pm

So we should just say OK to any old health care reform just to appease Democrats? Or to appease the President? Or Congress, Senate, or the House? Who cares that there are many questions left unanswered, they'll just make it up later and everyone should be OK with that as well?

Just remember, once your freedom is gone, you aren't getting it back.

Health care reform? NO

Insurance reform? Absolutely.

We should be able to choose our health care just like we do car or house insurance, by choosing what coverages you need and shopping around for price. The government, large and small, have got their hands into it making it impossible for people to do that.

We should be able to carry our insurance when moving between jobs. If that could happen there would be no need for any pre-existing condition clauses. If the insurance companies didn't want to let this happen then throw that PE clause in Insurance reform.

I'm not pro-insurance by any stretch of the imagination but it's a necessary evil. It's either that or you're gambling.
cabinover
 
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Re: Congress’ health care bill, H.R. 3200

PostBy: rberq On: Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:18 pm

cabinover wrote:Health care reform? NO
Insurance reform? Absolutely.

Excellent point. The two are often muddled together in discussions, so it's not clear what is being talked about.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
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Re: Congress’ health care bill, H.R. 3200

PostBy: SMITTY On: Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:24 pm

Agreed 100%.

Insurance is the biggest "legal" racket going (besides the MA state gov't.) & needs A MAJOR OVERHAUL!!!
SMITTY
 
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Re: Congress’ health care bill, H.R. 3200

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:16 pm

ErikLaurence wrote:
mikeandgerry wrote:
As I see it, there is nothing wrong with the current system that must be fixed by an unconstitutional socialist take over of 17% of the economy.


How is medicare not socialist? We should get rid of that too. Why should we pay the health care bills of people who were not responsible enough during their working lives to save enough for their old age?

Let old people spend their savings for doctors bills. If they don't have savings then well they should have saved more when they were younger. It's not our problem. Or maybe their kids can pay for their health care.


Medicare filled in the gaps of the free market without stifling the free market. The free market is not perfect but it does perform better in general than government enterprises.

I would prefer that government mandate pooled coverage as the do with the auto insurance business so that if you are in the health insurance business you must accept the high risks equally. That type of regulation would work and medicare should be set up that way.
mikeandgerry
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson Anthratube 130-M

Re: Congress’ health care bill, H.R. 3200

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:21 pm

cabinover wrote:So we should just say OK to any old health care reform just to appease Democrats? Or to appease the President? Or Congress, Senate, or the House? Who cares that there are many questions left unanswered, they'll just make it up later and everyone should be OK with that as well?

Just remember, once your freedom is gone, you aren't getting it back.

Health care reform? NO

Insurance reform? Absolutely.

We should be able to choose our health care just like we do car or house insurance, by choosing what coverages you need and shopping around for price. The government, large and small, have got their hands into it making it impossible for people to do that.

We should be able to carry our insurance when moving between jobs. If that could happen there would be no need for any pre-existing condition clauses. If the insurance companies didn't want to let this happen then throw that PE clause in Insurance reform.

I'm not pro-insurance by any stretch of the imagination but it's a necessary evil. It's either that or you're gambling.



Well stated. It is not a health care delivery problem, it is an insurance regulation problem.
mikeandgerry
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson Anthratube 130-M

Re: Congress’ health care bill, H.R. 3200

PostBy: djackman On: Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:39 am

mikeandgerry wrote:I would prefer that government mandate pooled coverage as the do with the auto insurance business so that if you are in the health insurance business you must accept the high risks equally. That type of regulation would work and medicare should be set up that way.


Which increases the cost of ins. for those of us who pay our own way, since the ins co's will just pass along those costs from the "assigned risk" pool.
djackman
 
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Re: Congress’ health care bill, H.R. 3200

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:41 pm

djackman wrote:Which increases the cost of ins. for those of us who pay our own way, since the ins co's will just pass along those costs from the "assigned risk" pool.


Not necessarily, if you provide affordable health care there is lots of healthy people out their that want basic coverage just to insure they don't lose everything over a broken leg.
Richard S.
 
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Re: Congress’ health care bill, H.R. 3200

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:14 pm

Richard S. wrote:
Not necessarily, if you provide affordable health care there is lots of healthy people out their that want basic coverage just to insure they don't lose everything over a broken leg.


But the only way this works is if you sign up when you're young.

If nobody signs up until they're old and decrepit (which is what happens now) then the system doesn't work.

The only way you should get cheap health insurance when your old is if you signed up for it when you were 18.

Otherwise you should go from the actualrial group of whole life to the actuaraial group of people over 65
ErikLaurence
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Reading Lehigh
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