The schizophrenia of Glenn Beck

Re: The schizophrenia of Glenn Beck

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:40 pm

Black_And_Blue wrote:
tvb wrote:
<snip> So the Obama admin sees the NEA as a potential propaganda outlet. <snip>l


Most certainly a conflict of interest, wagering it is ILLEGAL.



You do realize the legal issues mentioned on the call were in regards to the government using facebook and twitter in an official capacity. Glenn didn't seem to realize that but then he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

This is an extremely difficult and unsettled legal issue, a former colleague of mine (Katie Stanton from Google) now works for the White House on technology issues. The open legal issues around the use of social media in government are wide open and they err towards the cautious. Common sites like gmail are blocked from white house computers.
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Re: The schizophrenia of Glenn Beck

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:03 am

Van Jones on clean coal (should be of interest to a coal site) :

"Now I’m gonna tell you this: All that clean coal stuff … We could have clean coal. I’m for clean coal. But I’ll tell you what. If we’re gonna have clean coal, let’s have a couple other things…. We could power the country with clean coal, or we could have unicorns pull our cars for us … Equally fictitious, equally fantastical, equally ludicrous. You know, so, we could have the tooth fairy bring us our energy at night. I mean, equally ludicrous. There is no such thing as a tooth fairy. There is no such thing as unicorns. And there is no such thing as clean coal, so let’s be clear about that."

video : http://sweetness-light.com/archive/musings-from-our-green-czar-jones
Last edited by Black_And_Blue on Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The schizophrenia of Glenn Beck

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:14 am

Erik

Looks like the WH isn't too concerned :

Obama White House Has Secret Plan To Harvest Personal Data From Social Networking Websites
By Ken Boehm
http://nlpc.org/stories/2009/08/31/obama-white-house-has-secret-plan-harvest-personal-data-social-networking-website
Created 08/31/2009 - 19:07

NLPC has uncovered a plan by the White House New Media operation to hire a technology vendor to conduct a massive, secret effort to harvest personal information on millions of Americans from social networking websites.

The information to be captured includes comments, tag lines, emails, audio, and video. The targeted sites include Facebook, Twitter, MySpace, YouTube, Flickr and others – any space where the White House “maintains a presence.”

In the course of investigating procurement by the White House New Media office, NLPC discovered a 51-page solicitation of bids that was filed on Friday, August 21, 2009. Filed as Solicitation # WHO-S-09-0003, it is posted [1] at FedBizzOps.com. Click here to download a 51-page pdf of the solicitation [2].

While the solicitation specifies a 12-month contract, it allows for seven one-year extensions. It specifies no dollar cap. Other troubling issues include:

extremely broad secrecy terms preventing the vendor from disclosing to the public or the media what information is being captured and archived (page 7, “Restriction Against Disclosure”)

wholesale capturing of comments by non-White House staff on publicly accessible sites

capturing of content of any type (text, graphics, audio, or video)

capturing of comments by both Obama critics and supporters, with no restriction as to how the White House would use the information.


This is the third controversy involving the White House internet operations in less than a month. First, Obama’s New Media operation asked supporters to send information about critics of the White House health care effort to a White House email. This provoked a storm of criticism and the White House retreated. Then large number of people complained of getting email spam from the White House supporting the President’s health care position. Again the White House was forced to back down.

Now the same people at the White House are at it again with an ambitious plan to harvest huge amounts of information from the web and specifically social networking sites.

Given the White House’s recent abuse of its New Media operations, this huge, new secretive program is yet another sign that this Administration is at best indifferent to privacy rights and at worst prepared to violate civil liberties for political purposes.

Perhaps anticipating negative reaction to the invasiveness of the plan, a justification is provided in a Q&A. section of the solicitation. Question #9 reads:

The Presidential Records Act does not require the storage or archiving of non-EOP content, as such is there a specific reason as to why the content provided on EOP related websites in the form of comments is included in these archiving procedures?

Answer: The PRA includes in its definition of presidential records content ―received by PRA components and personnel. Out of an abundance of caution, we are treating comments made by non-PRA personnel on sites on which a PRA component has a presence as presidential records, requiring them to be captured or sampled.


Of course, this interpretation of the Presidential Records Act is so expansive that virtually any communication mentioning the president or the Administration could become subject to collection and archiving under the Act. This is not out of an “abundance of caution,” but out of an over-abundance of power. President Obama should make sure that this plan goes no further.
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Re: The schizophrenia of Glenn Beck

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:18 am

"If you want to know my policies, then you have to look at the people I surround my self with......"

-Barack Obama
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Re: The schizophrenia of Glenn Beck

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:36 am

Black_And_Blue wrote:Erik

Looks like the WH isn't too concerned :

Obama White House Has Secret Plan To Harvest Personal Data From Social Networking Websites
By Ken Boehm
http://nlpc.org/stories/2009/08/31/obama-white-house-has-secret-plan-harvest-personal-data-social-networking-website
Created 08/31/2009 - 19:07

NLPC has uncovered a plan by the White House New Media operation to hire a technology vendor to conduct a massive, secret effort to harvest personal information on millions of Americans from social networking websites.

The information to be captured includes comments, tag lines, emails, audio, and video. The targeted sites include Facebook, Twitter, MySpace, YouTube, Flickr and others – any space where the White House “maintains a presence.”

In the course of investigating procurement by the White House New Media office, NLPC discovered a 51-page solicitation of bids that was filed on Friday, August 21, 2009. Filed as Solicitation # WHO-S-09-0003, it is posted [1] at FedBizzOps.com. Click here to download a 51-page pdf of the solicitation [2].

While the solicitation specifies a 12-month contract, it allows for seven one-year extensions. It specifies no dollar cap. Other troubling issues include:

extremely broad secrecy terms preventing the vendor from disclosing to the public or the media what information is being captured and archived (page 7, “Restriction Against Disclosure”)

wholesale capturing of comments by non-White House staff on publicly accessible sites

capturing of content of any type (text, graphics, audio, or video)

capturing of comments by both Obama critics and supporters, with no restriction as to how the White House would use the information.


This is the third controversy involving the White House internet operations in less than a month. First, Obama’s New Media operation asked supporters to send information about critics of the White House health care effort to a White House email. This provoked a storm of criticism and the White House retreated. Then large number of people complained of getting email spam from the White House supporting the President’s health care position. Again the White House was forced to back down.

Now the same people at the White House are at it again with an ambitious plan to harvest huge amounts of information from the web and specifically social networking sites.

Given the White House’s recent abuse of its New Media operations, this huge, new secretive program is yet another sign that this Administration is at best indifferent to privacy rights and at worst prepared to violate civil liberties for political purposes.

Perhaps anticipating negative reaction to the invasiveness of the plan, a justification is provided in a Q&A. section of the solicitation. Question #9 reads:

The Presidential Records Act does not require the storage or archiving of non-EOP content, as such is there a specific reason as to why the content provided on EOP related websites in the form of comments is included in these archiving procedures?

Answer: The PRA includes in its definition of presidential records content ―received by PRA components and personnel. Out of an abundance of caution, we are treating comments made by non-PRA personnel on sites on which a PRA component has a presence as presidential records, requiring them to be captured or sampled.


Of course, this interpretation of the Presidential Records Act is so expansive that virtually any communication mentioning the president or the Administration could become subject to collection and archiving under the Act. This is not out of an “abundance of caution,” but out of an over-abundance of power. President Obama should make sure that this plan goes no further.



I love it when paranoid people write about things they know nothing about.

This is an RFQ for a content scraping application.

There's no "personal" information being collected.
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Re: The schizophrenia of Glenn Beck

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:39 am

Black_And_Blue wrote:
The information to be captured includes comments, tag lines, emails, audio, and video. The targeted sites include Facebook, Twitter, MySpace, YouTube, Flickr and others – any space where the White House “maintains a presence.”

In the course of investigating procurement by the White House New Media office, NLPC discovered a 51-page solicitation of bids that was filed on Friday, August 21, 2009. Filed as Solicitation # WHO-S-09-0003, it is posted [1] at FedBizzOps.com. Click here to download a 51-page pdf of the solicitation [2].


BTW, everything from page 9 on is boilerplate.
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Re: The schizophrenia of Glenn Beck

PostBy: jeromemsn On: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:09 am

I don't get it myself, if a person puts things on a site like twitter or myspace or facebook it would seems that they want to be heard, read. So I don't have a problem with the government gathering information about what is on those sites and that goes for the information that I have on my facebook and myspace. And I hate to say it but the so called leaks that get out that says the government is doing this or that , well there just the grains of sands in a beach full. I'm sure that somebody somewhere is gathering all kinds of info, statistics and such, who cares. Lot of good it does now doesn't it. Only person that matters with statistics is the big guy upstairs, not the person that bleeds just like you and me.
stop worrying about what the government is doing and live a rich full life until the lights go out for the last time. Thats what I do. Thats why Beck and his kind will not sway me from planting my apple tree or mowing my yard or burning the best coal around.
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Re: The schizophrenia of Glenn Beck

PostBy: cabinover On: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:55 am

I'm with all of that Jerome but I am concerned about the government and the people pushing this global warming/climate change thing. It's already out there that Obama and many like him want coal gone for good. Then we're stuck with just mowing our lawns, planting trees and trying to not go broke keeping warm.
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Re: The schizophrenia of Glenn Beck

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:07 am

Ignorance is bliss.

Problems typically grow larger and get out of control when ignored. Our government is exhibit A. It's understandable that politics is an area some choose to place in that category. But like balancing your home finances, ignoring a balance due leads to additional ramifications that are easily dismissed or parleyed at the time.

The human mind is limitless in it's ability to rationalize short term pleasures without consideration for the long term consequences.

Through a slow attrition we have been beaten down to feel powerless and through public education, conditioned to accept socialist policy while ignoring the impact on personal liberty and the debt to our posterity.

Have we forgotten the lessons already learned?

I place economy among the first and most important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers to be feared. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. If we run into such debts, we must be taxed in our meat and drink, in our necessities and in our comforts, in our labor and in our amusements. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labor of the people, under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.

- Thomas Jefferson
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Re: The schizophrenia of Glenn Beck

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:23 am

Black_And_Blue, I'm curious what what you think about retroactive fisa immunity, and the Narus box in AT&T's Folsom street facility and all the violations of the 4th amendment that went on since 9/11.

Or did you only become a civil libertarian on January 20th?



How could the article you posted be a " Secret Plan To Harvest Personal Data From Social Networking Websites" if there's a public RFQ to do the work?
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Re: The schizophrenia of Glenn Beck

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:00 pm

ErikLaurence wrote:How could the article you posted be a " Secret Plan To Harvest Personal Data From Social Networking Websites" if there's a public RFQ to do the work?


The best secrets are in plain sight.

How can you so easily dismiss the WH backing off its previous efforts to collect data on dissenters followed by this recent act to do the same under the "fair" guise of collecting data on supporters and opponents as nothing? This is retrenchment and an end-around of a rightfully skeptical public.

This isn't just polling, either. Polling is anonymous. With this they will collect their enemies list comprised of average citizens with an opinion against them. The key difference with Obama is that he doesn't view the R's as loyal opposition. He views them as something to eradicate.

They are doing what ACORN does. They collect names and then harass and strongarm those dissenters.

At least George Bush didn't act as if homegrown citizens were the enemy.

Keep sticking your head in the sand and soon your ears will be full of it.
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Re: The schizophrenia of Glenn Beck

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:17 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:
ErikLaurence wrote:How could the article you posted be a " Secret Plan To Harvest Personal Data From Social Networking Websites" if there's a public RFQ to do the work?


The best secrets are in plain sight.

How can you so easily dismiss the WH backing off its previous efforts to collect data on dissenters followed by this recent act to do the same under the "fair" guise of collecting data on supporters and opponents as nothing? This is retrenchment and an end-around of a rightfully skeptical public.

This isn't just polling, either. Polling is anonymous. With this they will collect their enemies list comprised of average citizens with an opinion against them.

They are doing what ACORN does. They collect names and then harass and strongarm those dissenters.



This is all much simpler and way less conspiratorial than you are making it out to be.

Every piece of correspondence and communication the WH makes needs to be archived. If my 5 year old writes a letter to the President, it gets archived. This is required by law

When the WH does not control the servers where the communication takes place then they need a new way to archive that communication. If Twitter goes out of business tomorrow the WH is still responsible for archiving everything that ever happened on https://twitter.com/whitehouse . The most thorough way to do that is content scraping to a 3rd party server. Twitter's API is unreliable (and that's generous). Their TOS blatantly state they have no SLA with the end user about archiving data.

If the WH wants to use 3rd party social networking sites they need a way to archive the data independent from the hosting companies.

That's what this is. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

mikeandgerry wrote:At least George Bush didn't act as if homegrown citizens were the enemy.


Actually he did.

Go look up Hepting v. AT&T and the Electronic Frontier Foundation.

This screen scraper is child's play compared to the the way the Bush administration wiped their butts with the 4th amendment.
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Re: The schizophrenia of Glenn Beck

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:50 pm

No, Erik. This is NOT a benign technical or ministerial issue as much as you would like it to be. If it were, the WH would not have backed off the controversy so quickly.

What we have is an administration that is intimidating its opponents systematically and personally. That is the cigar.

No Americans were hurt by GWB. He was defending this nation against foreign enemy. That was his job.
Last edited by mikeandgerry on Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The schizophrenia of Glenn Beck

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:51 pm

BTW...

If you actually read section 5 of the objectives section of the RFQ, you will see there's no requirement to capture any information on the author of the comment certainly not personal information.

The application speced in the RFQ can not make an "enemies list".

FWIW, this whole application can be done in 100 lines of python or perl. I bet I could write the twitter version in 5 lines of python.
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Re: The schizophrenia of Glenn Beck

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:53 pm

ErikLaurence wrote:BTW...

If you actually read section 5 of the objectives section of the RFQ, you will see there's no requirement to capture any information on the author of the comment certainly not personal information.

The application speced in the RFQ can not make an "enemies list".

FWIW, this whole application can be done in 100 lines of python or perl. I bet I could write the twitter version in 5 lines of python.



You miss the point. It is a violation of personal privacy.
Last edited by mikeandgerry on Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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