My HW coils are looking rough after summer in damp basement

Re: My HW coils are looking rough after summer in damp basement

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:55 am

I get the feeling that they are deliberately avoiding me, which isn't good .... I get less than friendly when that happens, & tend to say things I regret in anger - which doesn't earn me any favors. I'm trying real hard to be patient, but every day that goes by that I don't get a response just makes me more & more furious! :mad:

Kzad, I'd be pissed if that's what they offered me. $25 off after spending over $400 on 2 coils which were described on their site as suitable for coal .... I'd probably lose it! I'd accept nothing less than a 50% discount, even though it says in plain English on their site: LIFETIME WARRANTY, which means 100%.

wlape3, I totally agree. Would be nice, in a perfect world....

Thanks for the tip traderfjp -- I get so mad I fail to think logically & make things more complicated: like welding plates over the holes instead of using plugs! ;)

Yeah Paulie, it's a little damp down there... :roll: That's why I'd accept a 50% off offer. But they're not going to like me after Monday if I don't hear from SOMEBODY.... :|
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: My HW coils are looking rough after summer in damp basement

PostBy: dll On: Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:52 am

The coils should be going through a passivation process before the manufacturer ships them.

Passivation:
According to ASTM A 380, passivation is “the removal of exogenous iron or iron compounds from the surface of a stainless steel by means of a chemical dissolution, most typically by a treatment with an acid solution that will remove the surface contamination but will not significantly affect the stainless steel itself.” In addition, it also describes passivation as “the chemical treatment of a stainless steel with a mild oxidant, such as a nitric acid solution, for the purpose of enhancing the spontaneous formation of the protective passive film.”
In layman's terms, the passivation process removes “free iron” contamination left behind on the surface of the stainless steel as a result of machining and fabricating processes. These contaminants are potential corrosion sites which, if not removed, result in premature corrosion and ultimately result in deterioration of the component. In addition, the PASSIVATION OF STAINLESS STEEL passivation process facilitates the formation of a very thin, transparent oxide film, which protects the stainless steel from “selective” oxidation (corrosion).
dll
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman MKII, Salvo Citation wood/coal
Coal Size/Type: Nut/anthracite

Re: My HW coils are looking rough after summer in damp basement

PostBy: wlape3 On: Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:13 am

Hang in there Smitty! You have got the winning strategy. Keep your cool and keep after them. If you are persistent enough they will have to take you seriously and make some sort of offer to resolve the situation. It also wouldn't hurt to mention you are a member of this board and that negative publicity about their customer service could affect future sales. A letter to the local better business bureau may also be a good idea at some point. This sort of strategy worked well for me in a dispute with a local transmission repair shop a few years back.

By the way, don't feel too bad about living in Mass. It's worse here in NY :x
wlape3
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: 140 auger, forced hot air


Re: My HW coils are looking rough after summer in damp basement

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:28 am

Well your post is the #1 hit on Google if you search for 'hilkoil corrosion'...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us%3AIE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7GGLG_en&q=hilkoil+corrosion+&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
I will be sure and ask them about your situaton when I call about coils for my coal stove and if I should expect similar product issues...
And how the forum is waiting on their response...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: My HW coils are looking rough after summer in damp basement

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:52 pm

Thanks guys! I appreciate that - there's always strength in numbers.

wlape3 wrote:By the way, don't feel too bad about living in Mass. It's worse here in NY :x

I have heard that before. It's too bad - there's alot of nice land away from the city. I sort of figured that after I got whacked with a $14 toll from Erie to Albany on 90E - WITHOUT a trailer! :shock: :roll:
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: My HW coils are looking rough after summer in damp basement

PostBy: jpen1 On: Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:57 pm

Smitty Dll is right they should be passivating the coils before shipment. With both 304L and 316L adding apassivation layer to the metal greatly increases its performance with reguards to both chemical and stress corrosion. All the steam heating coils we build are passivated, including my hot water coil that is in my stove. I know all steam coils are required to be passivated for med. to high pressure steam usage to meet ASME spec. but I'm not sure about hot water coils. I would calmly inform the people at hilkoil that they have theses coils advertised as lifetime warranteed and that you expect that to be honored. Also notify them in a calm manner that if they refuse you will be left with no other recourse than to notify your states Atty. General. Living In the liberal state which you reside, I would think that would get there attention.
jpen1
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110 Boiler

Re: My HW coils are looking rough after summer in damp basement

PostBy: tjzmc On: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:27 pm

$400.00 for that! Why not just build your own out of stl's ,90's and straight pieces. I made one for my dad it lasted about 15 yrs. The stove burned through before the coil went bad.
tjzmc
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM S20
Stove/Furnace Model: Tri Burner

Re: My HW coils are looking rough after summer in damp basement

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:13 am

tjzmc wrote:Smitty Dll is right they should be passivating the coils before shipment ........

I hope that's what's happening. I can only guess because nobody has got back to me yet .... even after 3 emails directly to the owner & a phone call! :?:


tjzmc wrote:........Why not just build your own out of stl's ,90's and straight pieces........

I don't think they have 316L or ti elbows, do they? I'd have to order everything online because there is no place near here that sells anything like that -- & without seeing it & measuring it in person, I'm sure to get the wrong parts ....NOT good for the temper! :evil:

Plus the holes are already cut for these particular coils. Trying to get everything to line up correctly with elbows of a certain length & width would be next to impossible. Believe me - if there was an easier way, I'd have found it already. :D ;)
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: My HW coils are looking rough after summer in damp basement

PostBy: Yanche On: Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:31 pm

I use 316 stainless fittings in selected locations where CPVC can't do the job. It's expensive but does hold up with my acidic well water. I buy them here: http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/nnsrhm
It's an industrial supply house with exceptional service. I place my last order at 8:45 PM via the web site on a Thursday night. I was amazed when the UPS truck delivered my complete order the next day at 2 PM. All with standard ground shipping.

If you understand pipe thread allowances and measure correctly you can get within a 1/16 inch using threaded schedule 40 pipe. Merit Brass is one company that makes 316/316L stainless pipe. See: http://www.meritbrass.com/ProductInform ... lUses.html
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: My HW coils are looking rough after summer in damp basement

PostBy: jpen1 On: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:36 pm

You can get 316L pipie from IPS (Industrial Pipe Supply Company) . They carry all the fittings you can possibly want. However my experience has taught me stainless threads in an environment that heats and cools to the extremes of a stove should be avoided like the plague. A bent coil like you had is the best way to go. They make passivation jelly that you can passivate your own coils with. Our field guys use it when ever they perform a field weld. I'll have to find out where you can get the jelly retail.
jpen1
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110 Boiler

Re: My HW coils are looking rough after summer in damp basement

PostBy: SMITTY On: Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:10 am

Thanks guys ...... we'll see what happens with the warranty BS. If this don't work out, they will be getting bad press, & I will be on those links! :drunk:
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: My HW coils are looking rough after summer in damp basement

PostBy: SMITTY On: Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:02 pm

All set. He agreed to ship both for the price of one. I think they made a mistake the first time & sent 304 instead of 316, but they couldn't find my order ... said they had no record?? Water under the bridge at this point. But he did think I soaked them in some type of acid to clean them! :lol:

I was told once they are installed to just leave them alone - don't clean 'em, don't take 'em out, nothin. I don't want to go thru this again, so I'll probably remove them for the next summer & leave them upstairs where it's dry.

I must have the toughest basement in America! :flex: :box:

Maybe there's a market for this? I could torture test metal for companies -- if it survives 1 season in my basement, then it will survive ANYTHING! :yes: :funny:
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: My HW coils are looking rough after summer in damp basement

PostBy: Paperboy On: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:40 pm

I haven't previously posted in this thread, but I've been following your "saga" Smitty. Glad to see they at least met you half way. Persistence still pays once in a while.
Paperboy
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska Kodiak; Atlanta Homesteader
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska; Atlanta
Stove/Furnace Model: Kodiak; Homesteader

Re: My HW coils are looking rough after summer in damp basement

PostBy: traderfjp On: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:54 am

I'm glad they met you have way too but they did advertise a life time warranty. Were there any exclusions to that warranty? I didn't know that SS could corrode like that. I guess the flyash and moisture kept the coils in an acid environment all summer which wasn't good.
Last edited by traderfjp on Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: My HW coils are looking rough after summer in damp basement

PostBy: SMITTY On: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:34 am

Thanks guys. Yeah, I mentioned that, but his whole contention was that he honestly didn't believe that this is how I found them in the fall -- he kept saying "looks like they were left in an acid solution for cleaning a bit too long" & "we have never seen anything like this in 28 years ... & we make coils for Harman, etc...". It was beginning to become a pissing contest. I just wanted to get these things back ASAP & hooked up so I can get on with heating my house. We're freezing in here - got the oil thermostat set at a balmy 60*! :shock: :D I was shooting for December 1st as my one-match date, but I don't think I'm gonna make it!


I wonder if I have some stray electrical current running through my plumbing? Using the coils as an anode, on top of moist coal ash??? Anything is possible in this house! :lol:
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler