shopping for fireplace insert burn 50% coal 50% wood advise?

shopping for fireplace insert burn 50% coal 50% wood advise?

PostBy: clint On: Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:20 pm

I am having trouble finding something that fits our needs. A dealer nearby recomended the hitzer 983 which we liked. It was the only one he sold that could burn coal or wood. However, our fireplace is larger than the recomended max install size. We have a 42" wide by 32" tall fireplace. We looked at the harman one but my wife and I both thought it was ulgy. My mom has an old buck stove which we have been burning coal and wood in for 20 years or longer. I never thought it would be so much trouble to find a good insert for my house.

My understanding is you can't burn coal in the ones with the catalytic converter in them.

I live in SE Kentucky and hope to find a dealer within 200 miles or so. Any help would be appreciated.
clint
 

Re: shopping for fireplace insert burn 50% coal 50% wood advise?

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:05 pm

What type of coal you burning anthracite or bituminous?
Most stoves are EPA rated for Coal or Wood.
Buy a coal stove.
Burn the coal as primary use the wood to take the chill off.
My 'rents love the Hitzer 503
The Max dimension given is for a standard 6" shroud...
You would need something custom 10-12 inches…
Ask your dealer first and if they cannot help call Hitzer direct.
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: shopping for fireplace insert burn 50% coal 50% wood advise?

PostBy: Pete69 On: Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:46 pm

Baker custom cuts shrouds for their inserts to match your fireplace opening, and their is no need to be within 200 miles of a dealer as they ship direct from the factory. you will not find good pictures on their web sight, but if you look through the thread, pictures of your stove, their is two or three members here with Baker inserts.
As Cape Coaler said , if you like the hitzer, It would be a small matter to have a custom shroud made for the install.
Pete69
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Baker/Vermont Castings/Chubby
Stove/Furnace Model: fireside /VigilantII/Chubby

Visit Hitzer Stoves

Re: shopping for fireplace insert burn 50% coal 50% wood advise?

PostBy: clint On: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:36 am

I burn coal that is native to SE KY not such which type, the coal is mostly from an old deep mine on our property. I had it sampled and it goes about 0.70 sulfer and over 14,300 BTU with about 3.5% ash so a pretty clean burning coal.

I am thinking about buying a cast iron wood insert and burning coal in it anyway. One that is A non catalytic model. I have seen a couple of 34" wide models that we like.

We usually just burn coal at night to bank the fire, or burn a little bit of coal with wood when we first build a fire in order to heat the stove quickly so the themostat in the fan will kit on quicker and get the room warm faster. During the day we usually burn wood. MY moms buck stove was installed in 1982. And we have been burning coal and wood in it like this ever since, and it has not warped or cracked or melted or anything like that. We never build like a coal only roaring super hot fire in it. I am sure I could probably build a hot enough fire with coal only, that would do damage the stove, but I don't plan on trying it.
If the hitzer was a little wider I would be all over it, but I don't want to have six inches of trim on each side. We have a nice looki ng fireplace and I don't want to cover it up with trim.
clint
 

Re: shopping for fireplace insert burn 50% coal 50% wood advise?

PostBy: Stephen in Soky On: Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:45 pm

Clint, you have a PM.
Stephen in Soky
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Warm Morning
Stove/Furnace Model: 500

Re: shopping for fireplace insert burn 50% coal 50% wood advise?

PostBy: coal berner On: Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:15 pm

clint wrote:I burn coal that is native to SE KY not such which type, the coal is mostly from an old deep mine on our property. I had it sampled and it goes about 0.70 sulfer and over 14,300 BTU with about 3.5% ash so a pretty clean burning coal.

I am thinking about buying a cast iron wood insert and burning coal in it anyway. One that is A non catalytic model. I have seen a couple of 34" wide models that we like.

We usually just burn coal at night to bank the fire, or burn a little bit of coal with wood when we first build a fire in order to heat the stove quickly so the themostat in the fan will kit on quicker and get the room warm faster. During the day we usually burn wood. MY moms buck stove was installed in 1982. And we have been burning coal and wood in it like this ever since, and it has not warped or cracked or melted or anything like that. We never build like a coal only roaring super hot fire in it. I am sure I could probably build a hot enough fire with coal only, that would do damage the stove, but I don't plan on trying it.
If the hitzer was a little wider I would be all over it, but I don't want to have six inches of trim on each side. We have a nice looki ng fireplace and I don't want to cover it up with trim.

Did you look at Bakers Yet The Hitzer model 983 would be closer to the size your looking for then the model 503 .
The baker is smaller then both of the Hitzer. Looks like the Harman is the wider taller deepest one of them all.
Good luck on your seach Not many stove companies making inserts anymore.

http://www.bakerstoves.com/stoves5.htm

http://www.hitzer.com/model983.html

http://www.hitzer.com/model503.html


http://www.harmanstoves.com/specifications.asp?id=17
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: shopping for fireplace insert burn 50% coal 50% wood advise?

PostBy: jeromemsn On: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:25 pm

Harman user here and would not give it up for nothing. She has been good to me. Kept me warm to the point of opening windows to keep the temp where I like it, even with her throttled back on the coldest of days in the ranch house. She is taking the trip with me to Michigan this weekend, hate to leave such a good girl behind.

Now I'm not sure but I would imagine that Kentucky coal might be Bit coal, but that would be for smarter people than I to tell you.
jeromemsn
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker 90 dvc
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman elite fireplace insert

Re: shopping for fireplace insert burn 50% coal 50% wood advise?

PostBy: coal berner On: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:12 pm

jeromemsn wrote:Harman user here and would not give it up for nothing. She has been good to me. Kept me warm to the point of opening windows to keep the temp where I like it, even with her throttled back on the coldest of days in the ranch house. She is taking the trip with me to Michigan this weekend, hate to leave such a good girl behind.

Now I'm not sure but I would imagine that Kentucky coal might be Bit coal, but that would be for smarter people than I to tell you.

Yes it would be Bituminous coal down there . Anthracite is only mined in NEPA :D
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: shopping for fireplace insert burn 50% coal 50% wood advise?

PostBy: buickanddeere On: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:53 pm

I don't want to cause you marital problems but........................ I would tell my wife the stove will start looking good after she wears long johns and a coat in a 45F house for a few days.
buickanddeere
 

Re: shopping for fireplace insert burn 50% coal 50% wood advise?

PostBy: jeromemsn On: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:59 pm

Bit coal burner thats an insert, Do they make such an animal?
jeromemsn
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker 90 dvc
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman elite fireplace insert

Re: shopping for fireplace insert burn 50% coal 50% wood advise?

PostBy: Pete69 On: Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:32 am

If I can get my hands on some bitt. coal, I intend to try it in the insert for a couple days or so this winter.
My main source is anthracite, but last winter I tried coke, destined for the steel yards, with good results for three or four days.
I've known a few people around here that burn bitt coal in wood stoves, they just don't load it full like you would load a coal stove.
the way I understand it Bitt. coal burns best in a unit that has the ability to feed the fire with a secondary, or above the fire air source to burn off the volitals and maybe that is why it does well in a wood stove? So I'm figuring that the Baker, being a coal stove, with shaker grates, and getting its main source of air from under the fire, with the added benefit of having secondary air inlets on the loading door, leftover from the days before EPA regulation of wood stoves, when the unit was a wood and coal stove, may have the ability to burn a full load of bitt. coal better than a wood insert. It also burns wood well. With the inside dimensions of the firebox being 22 1/2 in. wide and 15 3/4 deep you can load it full of decent size logs.
My Vermont Castings Vigilant is designated as a Anthracite and Bituminous coal stove. Like the baker, although not EPA approved the VC will also burn wood. Maybe that would look good sitting on the hearth in front of the fireplace, It can be ordered with short legs and set up with the flue coming out the back and into the fireplace then up.
Pete69
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Baker/Vermont Castings/Chubby
Stove/Furnace Model: fireside /VigilantII/Chubby

Re: shopping for fireplace insert burn 50% coal 50% wood advise?

PostBy: Stephen in Soky On: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:35 am

Assuming you have an airtight, freestanding stove that feeds air from under the fire, are there any dangers to adding a small or medium quantity of anthracite over an established wood fire like Clint does in an attempt to lengthen the burn time overnight? How about Bit? Which type of coal would be best in this application?
Stephen in Soky
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Warm Morning
Stove/Furnace Model: 500

Re: shopping for fireplace insert burn 50% coal 50% wood advise?

PostBy: clint On: Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:43 pm

I had a salesman tell me over the weekend that one reason a lot of the newer stoves are not coal rated, had more to do with the EPA regulations and being eligible for the tax credit. (he said coal burners are not eligible) Than it did the actual performance of the insert. He told me that he thought most inserts that were not catalytic would be ok for small amounts of coal. But he said to never burn coal in a catalytic stove because the heat from the coal will warp the catalyist.

This is what a saleman told me, I am not sure this is 100% accurate, but it seems pretty believeable to me.
clint
 

Re: shopping for fireplace insert burn 50% coal 50% wood advise?

PostBy: coal berner On: Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:33 pm

clint wrote:I had a salesman tell me over the weekend that one reason a lot of the newer stoves are not coal rated, had more to do with the EPA regulations and being eligible for the tax credit. (he said coal burners are not eligible) Than it did the actual performance of the insert. He told me that he thought most inserts that were not catalytic would be ok for small amounts of coal. But he said to never burn coal in a catalytic stove because the heat from the coal will warp the catalyist.

This is what a saleman told me, I am not sure this is 100% accurate, but it seems pretty believeable to me.

If you look at the inserts in the links below you will see there all coal inserts they are made for coal & you can burn wood
in them . They are made like a hand fed coal stove which each of these Companies specialize in .
The key is with a insert to burn both coal & wood. First burning with Anthraicite coal is having shaker grates underfire air and a straight vertical fire box wall. To burn wood well in one you need above fire air having all above will make a good coal & wood burner. Two out of the four has everything to make a good Combo insert and two of them do not have above fire air. But they all can burn coal .

http://www.bakerstoves.com/stoves5.htm

http://www.hitzer.com/model983.html

http://www.hitzer.com/model503.html


http://www.harmanstoves.com/specifications.asp?id=17
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: shopping for fireplace insert burn 50% coal 50% wood advise?

PostBy: Pete69 On: Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:28 pm

The salesman mentioned above is definitely not familiar with the fundamental differences between a wood and coal stove.
anthracite will never burn in a wood stove. And as any blacksmith can tell you, even bituminous coal burns better in a stove that has air fed from under the entire coal bed.
I suppose fundamentally you could burn coal upside down, from top to bottom if you had a appliance that forced the air through the coal bed in that manner.
the key is that you can't burn a deep bed of coal by passing the combustion air across the fire, like a wood burner does.
Pete69
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Baker/Vermont Castings/Chubby
Stove/Furnace Model: fireside /VigilantII/Chubby

Visit Hitzer Stoves

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