Our Founding Fathers on Christianity

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Our Founding Fathers on Christianity

PostBy: spc On: Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:30 pm

John Adams:
"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.

The Holy Ghost carries on the whole Christian system in this earth. Not a baptism, not a marriage, not a sacrament can be administered but by the Holy Ghost. . . . There is no authority, civil or religious – there can be no legitimate government but what is administered by this Holy Ghost. There can be no salvation without it. All without it is rebellion and perdition, or in more orthodox words damnation."

Samuel Adams:
"I . . . [rely] upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins.

The name of the Lord (says the Scripture) is a strong tower; thither the righteous flee and are safe [Proverbs 18:10]. Let us secure His favor and He will lead us through the journey of this life and at length receive us to a better."

Charles Carroll:
"Grateful to Almighty God for the blessings which, through Jesus Christ Our Lord, He had conferred on my beloved country in her emancipation and on myself in permitting me, under circumstances of mercy, to live to the age of 89 years, and to survive the fiftieth year of independence, adopted by Congress on the 4th of July 1776, which I originally subscribed on the 2d day of August of the same year and of which I am now the last surviving signer."

John Hancock:
"He called on the entire state to pray 'that universal happiness may be established in the world [and] that all may bow to the scepter of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the whole earth be filled with His glory.'"

Samuel Huntington:
"It becomes a people publicly to acknowledge the over-ruling hand of Divine Providence and their dependence upon the Supreme Being as their Creator and Merciful Preserver . . . and with becoming humility and sincere repentance to supplicate the pardon that we may obtain forgiveness through the merits and mediation of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

George Mason:
"I give and bequeath my soul to Almighty God that gave it me, hoping that through the meritorious death and passion of our Savior and Redeemer Jesus Christ to receive absolution and remission for all my sins.
My soul I resign into the hands of my Almighty Creator, Whose tender mercies are all over His works. . humbly hoping from His unbounded mercy and benevolence, through the merits of my blessed Savior, a remission of my sins.

Benjamin Rush:
"The Gospel of Jesus Christ prescribes the wisest rules for just conduct in every situation of life. Happy they who are enabled to obey them in all situations! . . . My only hope of salvation is in the infinite tran¬scendent love of God manifested to the world by the death of His Son upon the Cross. Nothing but His blood will wash away my sins [Acts 22:16]. I rely exclusively upon it. Come, Lord Jesus! Come quickly! [Revelation 22:20]"

Roger Sherman:
"I believe that there is one only liv¬ing and true God, existing in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, the same in substance, equal in power and glory. That the Scriptures of the Old and New Tes¬taments are a revelation from God, and a complete rule to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy Him. . . . That He made man at first perfectly holy; that the first man sinned, and as he was the public head of his posterity, they all became sinners in consequence of his first transgres¬sion, are wholly indisposed to that which is good and inclined to evil, and on account of sin are liable to all the miseries of this life, to death, and to the pains of hell forever. I believe that God . . . did send His own Son to become man, die in the room and stead of sinners, and thus to lay a foundation for the offer of pardon and salvation to all mankind, so as all may be saved who are willing to accept the Gospel offer."

Richard Stockton:
"As my children will have frequent occasion of perusing this instrument, and may probably be particularly impressed with the last words of their father, I think it proper here not only to subscribe to the entire belief of the great and leading doctrines of the Christian religion, such as the being of God; the universal defection and depravity of human nature; the Divinity of the person and the completeness of the redemption purchased by the blessed Savior; the necessity of the opera¬tions of the Divine Spirit; of Divine faith accompanied with an habitual virtuous life; and the universality of the Divine Providence: but also, in the bowels of a father’s affection, to exhort and charge [my children] that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, that the way of life held up in the Christian system is calculated for the most complete happiness that can be enjoyed in this mortal state, [and] that all occasions of vice and immorality is injurious either immediately or consequentially – even in this life."

John Witherspoon:
"Christ Jesus – the promise of old made unto the fathers, the hope of Israel [Acts 28:20], the light of the world [John 8:12], and the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth [Romans 10:4] – is the only Savior of sinners, in opposition to all false religions and every uninstituted rite; as He Himself says (John 14:6): “I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by Me.” No man, whatever be his character or whatever be his hope, shall enter into rest unless he be reconciled to God though Jesus Christ.
There is no salvation in any other than in Jesus Christ of Nazareth."

ALL SIGNED THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE

http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesAr ... 8755#FN139
Please check the end notes for reference.

O ye, of little faith
spc
 
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Re: Our Founding Fathers on Christianity

PostBy: DOUG On: Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:58 am

Yes, Jesus Christ is my savior, the only way, truth, life, and the only way to the father God, The Creator of everything, the one only true God, and Jesus is his Son. The older I get, the more affirmation to this truth I do see.

As I live longer on this earth, I question more if the United States of America was truly founded as a Christian Nation? The constitution states having the freedom of religion, but if they truly were meaning a Christian Nation, don't you think that they should have been more specific stating freedom of religion within Christianity, and used Jesus Christ or The God of Moses, Abraham, Jacob, etc. This would have eliminated the possibility of these other false religions from polluting, corrupting, and amending the foundation of the meaning we fought for in the first place of becoming a Christian Nation.

I visited the Capitol when I was younger, and to my amazement, I often wondered as to the images which I saw carved into the structures and the paintings on the walls and ceilings. Why are all of the images and paintings portraying pagan religious figures and stories? Why do I not see Jesus Christ, Moses, Noah, etc. or any stories being painted from the Bible?

So, that has got me wondering as to what God the founding fathers were talking about, especially since Jesus Christ isn't anywhere to be found? Correct me if I am wrong, but as a kid then, and now a taxpaying U.S. citizen, seeing the shifting of the values, beliefs, and ethics to which this nation has turned its direction to, confirms to me that we may have not truly been founded on Jesus Christ as a Christian Nation.

The Bible states that we are either to be hot or cold, if we are to be found luke warm, we will be spat out, we are not to be equally yoked to unbelievers either. So all of this tolerance for these other non-Christian religions has to be dooming us as a nation. Just look around for yourself. I think what is happening speaks load and clear!
DOUG
 
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Re: Our Founding Fathers on Christianity

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:40 am

As religion is touchy subject for most I'll remind everyone about the specific rules for this forum:

Welcome to the "Thoughtful and Intelligent Debates".

If you're going to post in this forum have an argument, this forum will be moderated for content much more than the standard forums. Flaming, abuse or any other nonsense no matter how minor will not be tolerated under any circumstances. This is not to say any opinions will be censored, it's to say you better have a opinion and reason for your opinion. Keep your posts and discussions at a higher level and be sure they have significant discussion value.

Those not following along with these rules will have their posting privileges in this forum revoked.


Keep it civil please, it's great topic for this forum but lets not get into the mud.
Richard S.
 
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Re: Our Founding Fathers on Christianity

PostBy: ken On: Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:37 am

Man has had a God or Gods since man could think. All the religions have one thing in common , life after death. Nobody wants to think they just throw you in a hole and you rot away. :shock:
ken
 
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Re: Our Founding Fathers on Christianity

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:33 am

Ben Franklin

"Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough deist."


Want John Adams quotes?

"The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles."

"The United States of America governments have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses."

“When philosophic reason is clear and certain by intuition or necessary induction, no subsequent revelation supported by prophecies or miracles can supersede it.”

“Let the human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Superstition and dogmatism cannot confine it.”

"This revelation has made it certain that two and one makes three, and that one is not three nor can three be one. We can never be so certain of any prophecy, or of any miracle, or the design of any miracle, as we are from the revelation of nature, i.e., Nature's God, that two and two are equal to four. Miracles or prophecies might frighten us out of our wits; might scare us to death; might induce us to lie, to say that we believe that two and two make five. But we should not believe it. We should know the contrary."




There's lots more but I've got too much work to do to play today.
ErikLaurence
 
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Re: Our Founding Fathers on Christianity

PostBy: tvb On: Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:51 am

Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.

-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom
tvb
 
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Re: Our Founding Fathers on Christianity

PostBy: spc On: Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:55 pm

"You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are." -George Washington
spc
 
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Re: Our Founding Fathers on Christianity

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:15 pm

spc wrote:"You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are." -George Washington



Still nothing about his divinity.

Keep on Googling.
ErikLaurence
 
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Re: Our Founding Fathers on Christianity

PostBy: spc On: Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:01 pm

We honor a Man who walked on this earth over 2000 years ago with at least 2 major celebrations. Peaceful men have been murdered preaching His word, the most popular Book in the world is written about him & why, because he was a nice guy?
spc
 
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Re: Our Founding Fathers on Christianity

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:25 pm

spc wrote:We honor a Man who walked on this earth over 2000 years ago with at least 2 major celebrations. Peaceful men have been murdered preaching His word, the most popular Book in the world is written about him & why, because he was a nice guy?



If you really want to know the answer to that question I suggest you start with Josepheus.

Jesus and Christianity are inextricably linked with two separate political eras.

The first is the time between the two Jewish revolts and the destruction of the temple in 70CE. In this era christianity (if you can call it that in that era) was an apocalyptic jewish cult. When the apocolypse came in the form of the destruction of the 2nd temple then the followers of Jesus (who were not yet christians) needed to rethink things.

The second era was around 250CE and the start of the integration of the religion into the imperial establishment and the reasons behind that.
ErikLaurence
 
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Re: Our Founding Fathers on Christianity

PostBy: tvb On: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:22 pm

spc wrote:We honor a Man who walked on this earth over 2000 years ago with at least 2 major celebrations. Peaceful men have been murdered preaching His word, the most popular Book in the world is written about him & why, because he was a nice guy?


You forgot something: Many a peaceful man (and woman and child) has been murdered for not believing in the same ghost. Study up on the Crusades for just one of many examples.
tvb
 
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Re: Our Founding Fathers on Christianity

PostBy: franco b On: Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:07 pm

"We check and repress the divinity that stirs within us, to fall down and worship the divinity that is dead without us."
Henry David Thoreau

"Ever desiring one can see the manifestations. Ever desire-less one can see the mystery."

Lao Tse

"In the beginning was the Word,and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"
Gospel according to John

To make the meaning of the last clear, you need to use the original Greek word for "Word" which is Logos, meaning prime mover or sum total of all natural law.

Richard
franco b
 
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Re: Our Founding Fathers on Christianity

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:57 am

ErikLaurence wrote:
spc wrote:"You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are." -George Washington



Still nothing about his divinity.

Keep on Googling.


LOL Are you saying that Washington was a god?

How do you figure the quote says nothing about Washington's faith? He references the religion of Jesus Christ as part of the culture in the first person plural possessive. Obviously he had faith at the time of his statement.

Your arguments to reject the idea that religion in government was an intent of the founders are well taken but you go beyond that to imply that the founders rejected faith. Some did, some did not.

Above all they respected faith and religion as a fundamental right. They recognized that the people thrived on their faith. It was the ultimate freedom. This is showcased by the first amendment. They also rejected theocracy as an oppressive form of government, also showcased by the first amendment.

I get the impression that you do not respect faith and wish the first amendment guaranteed only the state's protection from religion and not religion's protection from the state. Is that so?
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Re: Our Founding Fathers on Christianity

PostBy: jpete On: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:53 am

What is the point of pointing out the individual religious preferences of the Founding Fathers? If I'm not mistaken, they went out of their way to ensure religious freedom for all. In drafting a Constitution, they enshrined the concepts of FREEDOM and LIBERTY. Not RELIGION. They CLEARLY felt the first to concepts were CRITICAL and the third optional. I will agree that MANY religious people act in a moral manner but that is not NECESSARILY true. And all it takes to remove your freedom and liberty is an IMMORAL government. Religion or not. The Taliban is a very religious government. But they are IMMORAL and have no regard for freedom and liberty. Those are the only two things which truly matter all else flows from them and without them tyranny and slavery follow.
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Re: Our Founding Fathers on Christianity

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:55 am

mikeandgerry wrote:
ErikLaurence wrote:
spc wrote:"You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are." -George Washington



Still nothing about his divinity.

Keep on Googling.


LOL Are you saying that Washington was a god?

How do you figure the quote says nothing about Washington's faith? He references the religion of Jesus Christ as part of the culture in the first person plural possessive. Obviously he had faith at the time of his statement.

Your arguments to reject the idea that religion in government was an intent of the founders are well taken but you go beyond that to imply that the founders rejected faith. Some did, some did not.

Above all they respected faith and religion as a fundamental right. They recognized that the people thrived on their faith. It was the ultimate freedom. This is showcased by the first amendment. They also rejected theocracy as an oppressive form of government, also showcased by the first amendment.

I get the impression that you do not respect faith and wish the first amendment guaranteed only the state's protection from religion and not religion's protection from the state. Is that so?


I was asking for a reference from Washington about Jesus' divinity, not Washington's divinity.

I respect faith. Faith is a personal matter in which the government has no business interfering. But the moment your faith includes proselytizing it is no longer personal. As soon as ones faith starts telling other people how to live their lives we've got a problem. If you start using the government as a club to hit others over the head with the tenets of your religion then we have a BIG problem.

An example up here in Maine: Gay marriage. The Unitarian church, some parts of the Episcopalian church, many sects of Judaism all recognize gay marriage. But right now we have the Catholic church and the Mormon church (amongst others) spending ridiculous amounts of money (tax deductible money) in trying the suppress the religious freedom of others using the government as a tool.

The government has no business involved in marriage in any way. If the Catholics don't want to marry gay people, they don't have to. That's religious freedom. If the Unitarians are OK with it, they should be able to. That is religious freedom too.
ErikLaurence
 
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