What type AC ok for LL Motors?

What type AC ok for LL Motors?

PostBy: Uglysquirrel On: Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:40 pm

This may have been covered before but I want to make sure since my stove is *NEW* and don't want to do anything stupid.

Is modified waveform AC ok to run the Coaltrol and FASCO motors ? Modified is generally created for the cheaper inverters vs some (much more expensive) inverters that provide a True sine waveform.

DVC-500 noted his Harman will not run on the modified that his generator creates, this caused me to ask this question for LL's.

Any experience?
Uglysquirrel
 
Stove/Furnace Model: Pocono

Re: What type AC ok for LL Motors?

PostBy: pvolcko On: Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:46 pm

In a pinch you can run wiht modified sine, but I wouldn't do it for very long. The asymetries in the waveform can lead to motor overheating, humming, and possibly eventual burnout. I actually don't know about the Coal-trol. I'll find out and get back to you on that.
pvolcko
 

Re: What type AC ok for LL Motors?

PostBy: 009to090 On: Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:53 pm

pvolcko wrote:In a pinch you can run wiht modified sine, but I wouldn't do it for very long. The asymetries in the waveform can lead to motor overheating, humming, and possibly eventual burnout. I actually don't know about the Coal-trol. I'll find out and get back to you on that.

If the Coal-trol doesn't have any motors, it should be fine. But it will pass a square sinewave through to the motors on the stove.
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Visit Leisure Line Stove

Re: What type AC ok for LL Motors?

PostBy: Yanche On: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:49 pm

Take a look at two of my previous posts for a more complete explanation of the technical issues when using any non-sine wave power source. A UPS system powering a computer is OK because the computer's switching regulator power supply first converts the incoming power to direct current. Usually to some voltage greater than the input line peak voltage, then the regulator circuits in the computer power supply reduce it to a much lower DC voltage. This process will completely eliminate any "spikes" in the input voltage. Such is not the case when you power a motor with a non perfect sine wave UPS system. See:

Blower Motor Buzzing On Inverter Power

flue temperature sensor interlock device

Here's a photo of my computer UPS system:

Battery back-up tutorial
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: What type AC ok for LL Motors?

PostBy: WNY On: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:26 am

I have a UPS (APC?) and has a modified sine wave output, it does make the motors buzz a bit, but only run it for short period until I can get the generator online....
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: What type AC ok for LL Motors?

PostBy: Uglysquirrel On: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:55 pm

You guys seem to be thru this already so some apologies are in order. So we can pretty much use a cheaper inverter for a short time unless we have a nice :> system like Yanche, and then maybe we go to generator power.

In kind of a related manner, do most residentual generators we buy at like Home Depot. etc, running at 60 Hz (3600 rpm) all provide true sine wave or at least some reasonably good wave so the motors are not endangered ? .....or do some provide some lower quality of true to a point where it could be considered modified depending on the generator quality?

My reason for asking is I believe DVC indicated he had a generator that wood not run his stoker.
If I am incorrect DVC please excuse.

Above is likely my last question on the topic.

b
Uglysquirrel
 
Stove/Furnace Model: Pocono

Re: What type AC ok for LL Motors?

PostBy: 009to090 On: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:20 pm

Uglysquirrel wrote:In kind of a related manner, do most residentual generators we buy at like Home Depot. etc, running at 60 Hz (3600 rpm) all provide true sine wave or at least some reasonably good wave so the motors are not endangered ? .....or do some provide some lower quality of true to a point where it could be considered modified depending on the generator quality?
My reason for asking is I believe DVC indicated he had a generator that wood not run his stoker.
If I am incorrect DVC please excuse.

Correct. My little 8000w 13hp honda, does not supply true sine waveform. I believe not many small gens do. The larger, whole house systems all seem to provide it, though. Read the sales brochure for each generator. If it provides true sinewave, it will definately say so in the brochures. Read before you buy :D
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Re: What type AC ok for LL Motors?

PostBy: pvolcko On: Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:43 am

Talked this over with Neil and others and the consensus is that we aren't sure. We've have very little feedback from customers who use the control with modified sine power. The best we can say is to try it out and listen for humming, whining, etc. from the control module and thermostat. Feel for overheating. Put the setpoint where it needs to be to dial up a medium FR and see how the convection fan motor sounds. Does it speed control properly? If you have any indication of abnormal motor behavior, overheating, buzzing, etc. then do not use it with the inverter. In any case, use this power source only on a short term, temporary basis (we recommend no more than 1 hour, but you may need to go shorter depending on your observations) while firing up a true sine generator or get a true sine waveform inverter for use on the stove.
pvolcko
 

Re: What type AC ok for LL Motors?

PostBy: WNY On: Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:30 pm

Mine buzzes a bit on the motors, but seems to work for at least 20-30 mins until the battery goes goes dead and hopefully I have the generator online by then.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: What type AC ok for LL Motors?

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:13 pm

Gotta tell u guys these are nice units - just bought two and tested them - pure sine wave

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... =P227-2000
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
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Baseburners & Antiques: Invader 2 Wings Best, Glenwood #8 + Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: What type AC ok for LL Motors?

PostBy: tsb On: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:30 pm

Coalnewbie,

I wish I'd found that before I built my own. Mine looks like
a 7th grade science fair project. The UPS from tiger has a 12 volt
input plug, so you could keep swapping batteries for quit a while.
I figured that my Leisure Line Pioneer pulls about 180 watts. The
tiger UPS would keep going for about an hour with no external battery.

Tom
tsb
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Binford 2000
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Pioneer top vent
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey Hanover II

Re: What type AC ok for LL Motors?

PostBy: 009to090 On: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:35 pm

coalnewbie wrote:Gotta tell u guys these are nice units - just bought two and tested them - pure sine wave

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... =P227-2000


Hey! Thats a good price!. The battery doesn't have a large capacity, but I would add a large battery or two, easily.
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Visit Leisure Line Stove