Acorn Dropped by Census Bureau

Acorn Dropped by Census Bureau

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:12 am

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/12/us/po ... acorn.html

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Census Bureau on Friday severed its ties with Acorn, a community organization that Republicans have accused of voter-registration fraud.

“We do not come to this decision lightly,” the census director, Robert Groves, wrote in a letter to Acorn that was obtained by The Associated Press.

In splitting with Acorn, Mr. Groves sought to tamp down negative publicity that the partnership would taint the 2010 census.


I'd imagine the straw that broke the camels back was the recent release of tapes where ACORN employees in two different locations were suggesting to people posing as a prostitute and a pimp how to evade taxes. Even more disgusting they child prostituion to which the Acorn employee replied "I don't need to know about that" or something similar.

Good riddance, hopefully this will lead to full investigation of the incidents and jail time.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
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Re: Acorn Dropped by Census Bureau

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:42 am

My question is why hasn't the Congress initiated a Congressional inquiry into this organization. John Connor (D) started to but was told "by the powers that be to drop it." That's a quote. So who are "the powers that be?" I called my Congressional representatives today and asked them 1) did they believe in the Constitution and the rule of law and if that was yes, why haven't they pushed for such an inquiry given ACORN'S history.

I was shocked to find out that of the 3 of them only one staffer could tell me with conviction that yes, the member of congress/senate believed in the constitution and the rule of law. The other two told me that they'd have to check. This would seem to be a yes or no question and one which could and should be answered by watching the individual's daily behavior. I am disturbed by the fact that one of these individual is a Naval Academy graduate, a Viet Nam vet and a former Sec Navy. He of all people should be walking the walk and talking the talk.

We haven't seen the end of this yet and I'm welling to bet it will reach well up the Democratic food chain. It will be interesting. Lisa

PS I'm crossing the river tomorrow and going to the 9/12 project rally in DC along with an estimated 75,000 of my closest friends. I think there will be many more then that. It's time to make a stand for what is right and what is wrong with our government instead of just belly aching. We the people can do amazing things as witnessed by the Jones resignation and the dropping of Acorn from the census work. This is just the beginning.
lowfog01
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Mark II & Mark I

Re: Acorn Dropped by Census Bureau

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:00 am

I watched those videos yesterday of the 2 posing as pimp & prostitute. KUDOS TO THEM FOR GOING UNDERCOVER!!! They did a great thing by finally exposing this organization for what it is.

I wonder if the sheeple are finally getting the picture about their "saviour" yet?

lowfog01 wrote:PS I'm crossing the river tomorrow and going to the 9/12 project rally in DC along with an estimated 75,000 of my closest friends.


RIGHT ON!! :up: I wanted to go to that sooooo bad, but my finances are preventing any travel these days. If only I were closer....... Should be a good turnout though! ;)
SMITTY
 
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Re: Acorn Dropped by Census Bureau

PostBy: spc On: Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:34 am

Inquiries were made to the Maryland AG's office about laws that acorn employees may have committed & this is what they "determined". Absolutely insane.
STATEMENT OF STATE’S ATTORNEYS OFFICE FOR BALTIMORE CITY RELATIVE TO THE ALLEGED BALTIMORE ACORN INCIDENT

Baltimore, MD – September 11, 2009 – We have received inquiries from citizens and the media asking whether the Baltimore City State’s Attorneys Office would initiate a criminal investigation for acts allegedly committed at ACORN offices located in Baltimore. The only information received in reference to this alleged criminal behavior was a YouTube video. Upon review by this office, the video appears to be incomplete. In addition, the audio portion could possibly have been obtained in violation of Maryland Law, Annotated Code of Maryland Courts and Judicial Proceedings Article §10-402, which requires two party consent.

http://wbal.com/apps/news/templates/story.aspx?articleid=35357&zoneid=2

This is what happens when you try to expose corruption. Shoot the Messenger's?
spc
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
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Re: Acorn Dropped by Census Bureau

PostBy: coalkirk On: Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:01 pm

Md does have some arcane laws in regards to recording without permission. But there's nothing other than politics to stop a federal probe and indictment. Conspiracy to violate federal tax laws, conspiracy to bring minors across state and national borders for prostitution, etc.
coalkirk
 
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Re: Acorn Dropped by Census Bureau

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:17 pm

I'd imagine the prosecutors hands are tied in regards to the tape if it was obtained unlawfully. You could argue it's a bad law but it's still the law.

Having said that I'm sure they'll have plenty of contributions for a defense if they end up being prosecuted.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Acorn Dropped by Census Bureau

PostBy: Yanche On: Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:05 pm

Sundays Washington Post newspaper had an article about the same private sting operation at Acorn's Washington, DC office. Similar M.O. and result. Same two individuals. Stay tune for the real law enforcement investigations. Clearly someone's targeting Acorn.

In Maryland it's illegal to audio tape someone without their permission. This includes telephone conversations. Video taping without audio is ok.

I always tell annoying telephones callers, "this call is being recorded for quality control purposes". Then press any phone key pad button. They sure hang up in a hurry. :-)
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
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Re: Acorn Dropped by Census Bureau

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:49 pm

In PA you need to inform someone if you're taping telephone conversation, I don't think there is any law regarding taping them personally. I researched the telephone laws once and the laws vary by state. As I understand it it depends on who is doing the taping, if you're in a state that allows it you would be able to call someone in PA and tape them without telling them.

In any event the Maryland law brings up a lot of interesting questions, for example if I'm recording some video and accidentally record someone without their knowledge am I breaking the law?
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Acorn Dropped by Census Bureau

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:15 pm

spc wrote:
STATEMENT OF STATE’S ATTORNEYS OFFICE FOR BALTIMORE CITY RELATIVE TO THE ALLEGED BALTIMORE ACORN INCIDENT

Baltimore, MD – September 11, 2009 – We have received inquiries from citizens and the media asking whether the Baltimore City State’s Attorneys Office would initiate a criminal investigation for acts allegedly committed at ACORN offices located in Baltimore. The only information received in reference to this alleged criminal behavior was a YouTube video. Upon review by this office, the video appears to be incomplete.
?



This sounds like the producers of the video are not making original available to the State’s Attorneys office. In this day and age with the ability to manipulate digital media with a $500 laptop, provenance of media is critical if you're going to use it as evidence.

Remember, King Kong was only 3 foot 6.
ErikLaurence
 
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Re: Acorn Dropped by Census Bureau

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:31 pm

Acorn and it's corruption will reach all the way to the top, both sides of Congress are liable and a lot of the problems we are dealing with today go all the way back to the Community Reinvestment Act, 30 years of corruption.
Black_And_Blue
 
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Re: Acorn Dropped by Census Bureau

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:47 pm

How do you go from:

Upon review by this office, the video appears to be incomplete.


to:

This sounds like the producers of the video are not making original available to the State’s Attorneys office.


It doesn't say they contacted them nor does it say they refused to release the original material.

If anything prosecutors will be looking for context, manipulation through edits is quite easy but also easy to spot.

Creating something that does not exist requires a huge amount of skill and is not easy to do at all. For situation like this almost impossible. It's hard to create things where people are involved even when filmed in a studio or environment specifically set up to create such a video let alone with a cheesy hidden camera. At most you might be able to manipulate the sound track.

Probably all irrelevant where this event is concerned anyway if it was obtained illegally.

Here's the video if you haven't seen it:



Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
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Re: Acorn Dropped by Census Bureau

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:23 pm

Richard S. wrote:How do you go from:

Upon review by this office, the video appears to be incomplete.


to:

This sounds like the producers of the video are not making original available to the State’s Attorneys office.


It doesn't say they contacted them nor does it say they refused to release the original material.

If anything prosecutors will be looking for context, manipulation through edits is quite easy but also easy to spot.

Creating something that does not exist requires a huge amount of skill and is not easy to do at all. For situation like this almost impossible. It's hard to create things where people are involved even when filmed in a studio or environment specifically set up to create such a video let alone with a cheesy hidden camera. At most you might be able to manipulate the sound track.

Probably all irrelevant where this event is concerned anyway if it was obtained illegally.

Here's the video if you haven't seen it:





I saw the videos. The first thing I noticed was his audio levels are way different than the Acorn people.

It would be simple for him to loop new audio for his parts after the tape is recorded. Edit out any exculpatory parts and you've got something that sounds bad. You're right, it is about context. I don't recall her mentioning prostitution. He is the one who talks about hookers and underage prostitutes.

If they make the unedited source tape available it's easy to verify if it was all recorded at the same time. If they don't make the source tapes available then you have to ask why. In any case, if they want Acorn prosecuted they will have to make the originals available.


Edited tape is not evidence. Especially audio.

For example: http://www.bartcop.com/rushnazi.mp3
ErikLaurence
 
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Re: Acorn Dropped by Census Bureau

PostBy: coalkirk On: Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:00 pm

ErikLaurence wrote:I saw the videos. The first thing I noticed was his audio levels are way different than the Acorn people.

It would be simple for him to loop new audio for his parts after the tape is recorded. Edit out any exculpatory parts and you've got something that sounds bad. You're right, it is about context. I don't recall her mentioning prostitution. He is the one who talks about hookers and underage prostitutes.

If they make the unedited source tape available it's easy to verify if it was all recorded at the same time. If they don't make the source tapes available then you have to ask why. In any case, if they want Acorn prosecuted they will have to make the originals available.


Edited tape is not evidence. Especially audio.


Eric, are you really serious??? Do you believe in the Easter bunny and Santa Claus too? Actually she does say prostitution. She tells her to call herself a "performace artist" instead of a prostitute on her 1040 form. Watch it again. She also tells them to take the 13 and 14 year old girls they intend to bring in from El Salvador to work as prostitutes as dependents. Find some other idiot liberal cause to champion because this is a losing proposition. There is going to be tremendous pressure on the US attorney in MD to do something about this. There were probably a dozen federal laws violated in that tape. There's no federal law against recording voice and video like in MD. These two acorn people should be prosected.
coalkirk
 
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Re: Acorn Dropped by Census Bureau

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:19 pm

coalkirk wrote:
ErikLaurence wrote:I saw the videos. The first thing I noticed was his audio levels are way different than the Acorn people.

It would be simple for him to loop new audio for his parts after the tape is recorded. Edit out any exculpatory parts and you've got something that sounds bad. You're right, it is about context. I don't recall her mentioning prostitution. He is the one who talks about hookers and underage prostitutes.

If they make the unedited source tape available it's easy to verify if it was all recorded at the same time. If they don't make the source tapes available then you have to ask why. In any case, if they want Acorn prosecuted they will have to make the originals available.


Edited tape is not evidence. Especially audio.


Eric, are you really serious??? Do you believe in the Easter bunny and Santa Claus too? Actually she does say prostitution. She tells her to call herself a "performace artist" instead of a prostitute on her 1040 form. Watch it again. She also tells them to take the 13 and 14 year old girls they intend to bring in from El Salvador to work as prostitutes as dependents. Find some other idiot liberal cause to champion because this is a losing proposition. There is going to be tremendous pressure on the US attorney in MD to do something about this. There were probably a dozen federal laws violated in that tape. There's no federal law against recording voice and video like in MD. These two acorn people should be prosected.


And if they make unedited source material from the tape available then they will be prosecuted.

If the film makers refuse to make unedited source material available then there's no case.

If Breitbart and Beck want to turn this into something real, something that can make change for the better, then they should be pressuring the film makers to turn over all their rushes to the prosecution. If they are not doing that then this is just a ratings game for them.
ErikLaurence
 
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Re: Acorn Dropped by Census Bureau

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Sep 13, 2009 1:41 am

ErikLaurence wrote:
It would be simple for him to loop new audio for his parts after the tape is recorded. Edit out any exculpatory parts and you've got something that sounds bad. You're right, it is about context. I don't recall her mentioning prostitution. He is the one who talks about hookers and underage prostitutes.


Well it's not as cut and dried as simply editing it in. He'd have to make sure he wasn't talking at any point where she was talking and there wasn't any other visible sources of sound such as her flipping through papers where they would want to make edits. Splitting the sound out from two different sources on the same track is hard. You can enhance and mute areas but removal is not an easy task. As far as the level of his voice since the camera was closest to him and/or he was probably wearing a mic that would explain it. Wireless mics aren't that expensive. I have one myself I used for my Cousins wedding.
Richard S.
 
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