Water Heater Coil

PostBy: Charlie Z On: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:37 pm

Greg,

The masonry link is the nepadigital link mentioned by WNY above; it originally came from a oven maker:
http://mha-net.org/msb/docs/dhw2.PDF
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
.

As I said, I don't know squantos, but I know enough to listen to guys that do know and you and Yanche are 'on the screws.' The problem really isn't a 'coal problem', but whatever heat source you add is a problem. Solar or your very own basement nuke will have the same problem.

I did find another curmudgeon in wood, who goes over it well, John Gulland in Canada:
http://www.woodheat.org/dhw/dhw.htm
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
He's got some time is this game and I respect his opinion.

Yanache, man , you've hit the nail on the head. I've been trying to piece this puzzle together for about a month and have come up empty. I'll be getting the Holohan books, those look good.

Unfortunately, Gulland recommends that solid fuel furnaces are best for large operations and not small homes (1300sq') as mine. A stand-alone stove makes more sense. He's right, of course, but I'm interested in this as a challenge.

The oldest oil burner guy in the shop came out to replace a (little) valve on my 94 yr old aunt's system a couple of weeks ago. He wouldn't touch anything else. But, it doesn't need it. My crazy uncle painted the whole system and you can eat off of it. It still looks like the engine room of the USS Texas. It has a couple of centuries left, I think. It was built in 1933. A little keystoker or harman boiler would work really well there...

Edit: I found this site by Holohan. Explains the what you were saying about the open systems (best description I've seen): http://www.oldhouseweb.com/stories/Detailed/830.shtml
Last edited by Charlie Z on Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Charlie Z
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Coalbrookdale
Stove/Furnace Model: Darby

PostBy: LsFarm On: Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:24 am

Charlie, NOW I see the 'Masonry Stove Builder' in the .PDF file ! I've looked at that file several times and never saw that in the upper right corner.

I'm not sure there really is a problem with hot water coils in solid fuel stoves, as long as there are pressure relief valves installed. Modern systems have had decades to mature. Our simple but effective water loops just require some standard safety features and devices installed.


Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

PostBy: rouxzy On: Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:51 am

Well, I think I've got the overheating of water under control. I took out a section of the pipe that goes from the stove to the hot water tank and replaced it with a section of finned pipe from baseboard heat. I figured with the aluminum heat sinc finns it would draw some of the heat away from the water. Well, so far it has worked. The water is now a lower temp and I'm drawing more heat from the stove in the process. There are times when I really fire the stove up and the pipes still get really hot so I have a small fan that I turn on that blows across the finns which cools it down evern more and thus blowing evern more heat out to the house. Of course this whole deal has me thinking about a way to extract more heat from my stove, but I think that will be a project for next year.
Tom
rouxzy
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut / Anthracite


radant floor heat

PostBy: bull463 On: Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:22 pm

Hi All
I got looking at hot water from a coal stove. Could you put in floor heat and domestic hot water kind of a dual system? I have a 90,000 btu stove that works great. But Im thinking of how nice it would be for radant floor heat and maybe the extra fioor heat would take care of any over temps on the domestic tank? I not sure about all of this thought I would ask the experts. Thanks bull 463 :idea:
bull463
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: keystone harth

PostBy: rouxzy On: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:16 pm

bull463, in fact that is my project for next year. My stove is located in the basement and is right below the kitchen. In my kitchen I have a toe kick heater under the kitchen sink that comes off my boiler. When the water in the coils reach a certain temperature a fan turns on. It really heats up my kitchen nicely. When I was adding the finned pipe to my hot water heater in the basement I noticed the piping for the heater in the kitchen was right above it. My plan is to put in some isolation valves to this heater so I can run it off the boiler or off my stove. That way before the water gets too hot for the hot water heater it will turn on the fan in the kitchen heater and thus cool the water down. What I need to do first is find out what temp the fan turns on and off at, so I can make sure this will work.
Tom
rouxzy
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut / Anthracite

floor heat

PostBy: bull463 On: Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:50 pm

Hi Tom
That sounds good. Im looking at doing radiant floor heat just in the basement family room. Havent got it all straht yet just starting to look into it. I would like to have forced air on the second floor. But Ive got lots of work to do in basement before any of this happens.
thanks for the comeback
tom
bull463
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: keystone harth

Hot Water

PostBy: endinmaine On: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:42 pm

Greg,

You and others may enjoy reading this about a guy in Woolwich, Maine who heats his large barn with solar energy. Maybe some ideas there that
we could use for use in our stove/hot water systems

http://www.arttec.net/Solar/BarnHeat.html

Eric
endinmaine
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Margin Gem Cook Stove and Harman Mark III
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman and Margin Gem
Stove/Furnace Model: Mark III and CookStove

PostBy: rouxzy On: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:38 am

Well, next year's project couldn't wait until next year. My wife has shown interest in shaking down the ashes and loading up the stove while I'm gone away 15 hours a day. She said there is one condition. She doesn't want the pressure relief valve opening up while she is down there. So I connected the water heating coil to two kick toe heaters that are in the kitchen and bathroom. The fans come on at 150 degrees and shut off at about 125 degrees. What a differance. I've had to turn down the heat on the Harman Mark III because the house now gets too hot. With the temps outside in the teens my house maintained 74 with just 1 1/4 turns. The only thing I want to do now is connect an aquastat so the circulator pump doesn't constantly run. But I'm not sure which one to get and how it hooks up. Anyone out there have any info or ideas?
Tom
rouxzy
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut / Anthracite

PostBy: Yanche On: Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:15 pm

My boiler has a Honeywell L4081B. Do a google search for the pdf instruction manual. There are several versions A,B or C. You will need a L4081A or L4081B depending on the switch contacts you need. The A "breaks" the B "makes". The sense element mounts in an immersion well, 1/2 and 3/4 inch NPT are available. You could also clamp the sense element to an appropriate pipe with a hose clamp.

If you have heating and A/C contractors nearby take an aquastat off one of their junk boilers. Give the guy a beer and he'll take if off for you!

Yanche
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

AQUSTAT

PostBy: TGMC On: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:03 pm

TOM
THE AQUASTAT IS A GOOD IDEA, BUT YOU MIGHT HAVE BETTER RESULTS LEAVING THE PUMP RUN ALL THE TIME FOR TWO REASONS. ONE , WITH THE PUMP RUNNING YOU HAVE LESS CHANCE OF THE RELIEF VALVE BLOWING OFF. SECOND, IF THE TOE SPACE HEATERS ARE CONTROLLED BY A WALL THERMOSTAT, WHEN THEY COME ON THERE WILL BE NO COLD BLAST AS WITH SOME, ALSO THE ROOM WILL HEAT UP FASTER BECAUSE THE HEAT IS ALREADY AT THE HEATER.


GOOD LUCK
PITTSTON VAL
TGMC
 
Stove/Furnace Make: KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: KB 8

MASONARY HEATING

PostBy: TGMC On: Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:55 pm

GREG
NOT TO BE A WISE GUY, BUT HERE IN THE STATES WE HAVE THERMOMASS HEATING IN THE FORM OF CAST IRON BASEBOARD, RADIANT FLOORS, ECT. WHERE THE EUROPEANS HAVE US IS IN THE WOOD ONLY BOILERS , SOME WITH 80+ EFF.CHECK OUT TARM BOILERS. THE ALSO MAKE COAL , AND COMBO UNITS. ALSO , HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF SOAPSTONE FIREPLACE HEATERS?

PITTSTON VAL
TGMC
 
Stove/Furnace Make: KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: KB 8

PostBy: LsFarm On: Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:34 pm

Hi TGMC, I don't think you are being a wise guy, but I think you are preaching to the choir. :) :lol:

I've built several wood stoves, including ones that frankly were pretty high tech for their day. With huge thermal ceramic mass in the center of the home, with built in air duct work to transport that stored heat. one with a soapstone top and front verneer.

I'm on my third water-heated concrete floor shop, my current one a 40x60 with 16' ceilings. It now is being heated like my house from a remote SS wood/coal boiler of my design.

I personally think the europeans are way ahead of us in most heating designs. When I was spending three days every week in Stuttgart for several years, I saw a lot of radiant low temp walls, floors and ceilings. The radiant panels are made to last 50+ years. Very heavy duty. Homes and buildings are built to last centuries over there.

I'm not as impressed with Tamm and some of the other high tech wood burners., the reason is that they require very dry wood. If you toss in a slightly green piece of wood, the whole system stops working and clogs up with creosote, I've helped a few frustrated owners troubleshoot high tech wood burners.

I've fallen in love with coal burners for the consistant heat delivery.

Respectfully Greg L

By the way using all caps makes for easier typing, but on discussion forums it is CONSIDERED YELLING. Most of us save all caps for making a point.

Greg

.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

yelling

PostBy: TGMC On: Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:36 am

Thanks for the correction. Still kind of new at forum pages. Idid not know that about the Tarm, almost went with it, but i got 2 Keystokers boilers for free. Right now the one in my basement doesn't want to keep up with the house, It's 1 1/2 times the size of the gas boiler, on a Field powervent, but it keeps losing ground on moderate to high demand. Any thoughts?
ps. just got my hands on a Keystoker B burner that needs a little work.
pittston val
TGMC
 
Stove/Furnace Make: KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: KB 8

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:10 am

When your Keystoker boiler [I'm jealous] is loosing ground, is the grate fully covered with hot, burning coal?? Are the flames 8-10" tall coming off the coal?
I was playing with a LeisureLine stoker stove in my shop, and had about half the 'carpet bed' covered with hot coal, but wasn't too impressed with the heat output. So I double checked the reostat settings, and found that I had the stoker reostat set pretty low. This powers both the stoker mechanism and the combustion fan. I turned up the reostat to max, and cut back on the stoker's stroke.

I then had a much hotter fire, with 6-8" flames instead of 1-2" flames, and I got a lot more heat with the a smaller 'hot coal' area on the burner bed.

So take a look at the flames, if they aren't too impressive, make sure there isn't an adjustment for the combustion fan, maybe an adjustable flap over the opening of the fan, and get as much air to the burner bed as possible.

Make sure you don't have too much draft, [have a baro damper? or a reostat on the powervent?] it may be pulling a lot of heat up the chimney before it can heat the water jacket. Did you clean all the passageways in the water jacket to make sure they were not blocked or insulated with a lot of ash??

Those are the first ideas that come to mind. What is the BTU rating of this boiler??

Take care. let us know what you find, this forum is great in that we all learn from other members' learning experiences.

Greg L

.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

keystoker venting

PostBy: TGMC On: Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:20 am

Greg, I just checked the forum page on powervents and baro.Yes i have a baro,rehostat combo. I think I put the baro too close to the boiler. Going to go down and make some changes and see how it works out. Will let all know my results.

pittston val

ps. my wife says i yell all the time .
TGMC
 
Stove/Furnace Make: KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: KB 8